Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

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Doodoo
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Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by Doodoo » September 25, 2020, 1:20 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqppRC3 ... e=youtu.be

Have heard about the lack of materials for batteries, the large costs and materials to build solar and wind generation. It looks like in the end well who knows.



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Whistler
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by Whistler » October 13, 2020, 5:09 pm

If it were true, but too many utter lies.

Their claim is the batteries in a car weigh half a tonne. The weight of batteries in a Prius is 90KG. Just a single example of the BS in this video. The claims about the use of rare earths is also totally overblown. What is true is that China is at the forefront of manufacturing batteries using these rare earths, but that is changing rapidly as governments see the sovereign risk of being dependent on China.

Energy can be stored in many ways, a new project in NSW uses energy to pump water uphill during the day using solar, and allowing the water to flow, drive turbines during hours of darkness, wind blows 24 x 7. I lot of wind also appears to be blowing out of this presenter rectum.

PragerU is NOT a university, it is primarily financed by owners of a massive fracking company. Just another example of using the internet to push misinformation.
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Whistler
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by Whistler » October 13, 2020, 9:57 pm

As for rare earths, they are only a bit rare insofar as they are widely distributed over the earth. There will be no massive mines as portrayed by this video, as there are no huge concentrations of these elements. They are rare because they are dispersed, but despite this, they are abundant, albeit in smaller pockets of the earth.
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by AlexO » October 13, 2020, 11:23 pm

Whistler wrote:
October 13, 2020, 5:09 pm
If it were true, but too many utter lies.

Their claim is the batteries in a car weigh half a tonne. The weight of batteries in a Prius is 90KG. Just a single example of the BS in this video. The claims about the use of rare earths is also totally overblown. What is true is that China is at the forefront of manufacturing batteries using these rare earths, but that is changing rapidly as governments see the sovereign risk of being dependent on China.

Energy can be stored in many ways, a new project in NSW uses energy to pump water uphill during the day using solar, and allowing the water to flow, drive turbines during hours of darkness, wind blows 24 x 7. I lot of wind also appears to be blowing out of this presenter rectum.

PragerU is NOT a university, it is primarily financed by owners of a massive fracking company. Just another example of using the internet to push misinformation.

Granted that some of the claims may be a wee bit exaggerated but its not all false. What happens if we stop using gas for heating and cooking. The whole world/national electrical infrastructure's will need to be upgraded (copper will just appear like magic and have no carbon footprint in its production?) A car fossil fuel engine can probably last at 15 years but you will be lucky if primary drive batteries for cars will last 5 years, especially in warmer climes. Many, many impacts on the worlds carbon footprint that wee Greeting Greta and the tree huggers have not thought through to conclusion. Main problem? Too many people on the Planet. Solution? Quite a few, but most are unacceptable. Thank the gods I will not be around in 20 years time.

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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by Barney » October 14, 2020, 12:29 am

So rare earths as in “Lithium” are rare because they are dispersed and not in any large concentrations to allow mining.
Why is the world going for lithium batteries if that statement is true?


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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by parrot » October 14, 2020, 5:01 am

PragerU, short for Prager University, is an American non-profit organization that creates videos on various political, economic, and philosophical topics from an American conservative or right-wing perspective. (from wiki). I suspect that the oil/coal industry might contribute to attempts to debunk renewable energy. A prominent political figure in the US, opposed to the idea of a wind farm near his golf course, said "the noise from wind turbines causes cancer."

Wind energy in Texas supplies more than 15% of its needs......and growing. Renewable energy provides over 20% of the total Texas needs. California is producing 17% of its electrical needs with solar power. There's a revolution going on with solar power and battery storage in the night.
Tesla offers an 8 year/150,000 mile warranty on its batteries. Musk announced the new 4680 battery technology in Sept 2020 that will greatly improve on existing batteries. He's building his own factories......as he is with Space X and the monster rocket to Mars. Like the man or not, you can't argue with the revolution he's leading in electric cars and rocket technology.

I liken the modern advances in renewable energy to the advances the world made in personal computers in the late 20th century. The naysayers of the possible demise of bookstores/magazines/newspapers/on-line shopping/ledger books/robotics and private space enterprise have been proven wrong time after time. It's clearly time for the boomers to stand back and let the newer generation lead the way in energy.

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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by tamada » October 14, 2020, 6:20 am

The battery in the hybrid Prius may well be 90 kg (I didn't Google it) but it's still mostly non-recyclable. The battery in a non-hybrid Tesla S is 540 kg, or 1,200 lbs (I did Google it) or more than half a ton... also mostly un-recyclable.

Can this new-fangled NSW energy facility run on BS too or are they similarly confused about the technology they espouse?

I disagree that the Boomers should stand back right now. Eventually they will all die so let the Gen-X, Y and Z'ers bash on with trashing their own planet while they pursue the impossible.

The Manhattan Institute crunched these numbers some time earlier this year and their full digest does pose some serious and very relevant questions. One of them not directly addressed in the OP's video was the huge cost and difficulties interfacing all this shiny new, planet-saving high-tech with the existing energy infrastructure, power grids and distribution networks.

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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by noosard » October 14, 2020, 9:29 am

Tesla refers to the Roadster's battery pack as the Energy Storage System or ESS. The 450 kg (992 lb) ESS contains 6,831 lithium ion cells arranged into 11 "sheets" connected in series; each sheet contains 9 "bricks" connected in series

Prius is a hybrid

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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by noosard » October 14, 2020, 9:38 am

Lithium and Cobalt are not rare earth metals but are just rare
Top rare earth producing countries are
10 Top Countries for Rare Earth Metal Production
China. Mine production: 132,000 MT. ...
United States. Mine production: 26,000 MT. ...
Myanmar. Mine production: 22,000 MT. ...
Australia. Mine production: 21,000 MT. ...
India. Mine production: 3,000 MT. ...
Russia. Mine production: 2,700 MT. ...
Madagascar. Mine production: 2,000 MT. ...
Thailand. Mine production: 1,800 MT.
Brazil 1000mt
Vietnam 900mt
So China produces more than 50% of world production

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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by Whistler » October 14, 2020, 9:53 am

Most electric car batteries weigh 230KG with the new Bosch battery coming in at 190KG. Not many of the are the very large high capacity powered models. A couple of other facts to ponder.

- Battery technology is improving rapidly, more power, less weight with each technological improvement.
- Batteries in use today are recycled at a rate of 50% by weight.
- Fossil fuel powered cars produce CO2 that is not recycled either, it is pumped into the air. According to to the SMMT New Car Report 2017, UK cars: emit 68 metric tons of CO2 on average over its lifetime (battery powered cars produce zero)
- Hydrogen is likely to be a non-polluting alternative in the coming years
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Whistler
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by Whistler » October 14, 2020, 9:57 am

Most electric car batteries weigh 230KG with the new Bosch battery coming in at 190KG. Not many of the are the very large high capacity powered models. A couple of other facts to ponder.

- Battery technology is improving rapidly, more power, less weight with each technological improvement.
- Batteries in use today are recycled at a rate of 50% by weight.
- Fossil fuel powered cars produce CO2 that is not recycled either, it is pumped into the air. According to to the SMMT New Car Report 2017, UK cars: emit 68 metric tons of CO2 on average over its lifetime (battery powered cars produce zero)
- Hydrogen is likely to be a non-polluting alternative in the coming years

As for China producing 50% of rare earths, wrong, China produces 95%. Rare earths are mined in many countries, but most of the raw material is processed in China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_eart ... 20deposits.
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by tamada » October 14, 2020, 10:16 am

Musk's cyber truck will be rolling off the production lines with an estimated 3,200 lb battery pack.

The Tesla cyber semi, still in development, will tote around three times the cyber truck's physical weight of batteries to get the touted maximum 500 mile range.

Tesla's ongoing battery development is focused on weight reductions through "condensing" components and not reducing the amount of rare earth elements at the core.

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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by tamada » October 14, 2020, 11:28 am

tamada wrote:
October 14, 2020, 6:20 am
...

The Manhattan Institute crunched these numbers some time earlier this year and their full digest does pose some serious and very relevant questions. One of them not directly addressed in the OP's video was the huge cost and difficulties interfacing all this shiny new, planet-saving high-tech with the existing energy infrastructure, power grids and distribution networks.
The following link makes for a good read and is far more convincing and cerebral than the PragerUTube video.

https://media4.manhattan-institute.org/ ... 319-MM.pdf

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Whistler
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by Whistler » October 14, 2020, 12:01 pm

Batteries not included

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/manhatta ... -research/

hardly an independent source, the institute has a high conservative bias and is judged to be loose on its facts.

Their statement that batteries are crucial for storage is not correct, there are many alternatives to store energy kinetically or chemically. Pumping water up hill and having it drive turbines as it runs down from reservoirs is gaining popularity, as is the production of hydrogen, as is the use of ammonia.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07 ... out-carbon
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by glalt » October 14, 2020, 12:49 pm

The technology is there already to run cars and trucks on nuclear waste material. That waste stays hot enough to boil water for many years. Governments deem using the nuclear waste to be too dangerous to allow its use. If not for the risks of fanatical terrorists using that waste for weapons it could replace batteries and most oil.

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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by noosard » October 14, 2020, 5:01 pm

boschGerman company Bosch’s current goal is to create a 50 kWh battery that weighs only 190 kilograms. Based on recent comments by a company researcher and how much money the company is funneling towards electric car battery research, Bosch is working very hard to achieve their goal. They predict that 15% of all cars sold by 2025 will have an electric power train.

If their prediction is correct, Bosch could dominate the auto battery market of the future. The company also recently bought Seeo a solid-state battery startup, which may or may not be related to their exploration of lighter batteries, according to CleanTechnica’s James Ayre.
https://www.greenoptimistic.com/bosch-e ... attery-kg/
Oct 2015

Strange that this light weight battery is not being used by Telsa

Most electric auto batteries used right now weight 230 kilograms, but a 50 kWh one would weigh 380-600 kilograms.
https://www.greenoptimistic.com/bosch-e ... attery-kg/

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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by Whistler » October 15, 2020, 1:58 pm

noosard wrote:
October 14, 2020, 5:01 pm

Strange that this light weight battery is not being used by Telsa

Most electric auto batteries used right now weight 230 kilograms, but a 50 kWh one would weigh 380-600 kilograms.
https://www.greenoptimistic.com/bosch-e ... attery-kg/
it would be stranger if they did, the two companies are competitors
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by parrot » October 15, 2020, 11:45 pm

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -not-last/

One of my brothers lives in California, had solar panels installed and a Tesla battery pack added to the house. He's able to moderate the amount of electricity used during peak times by using his battery pack, and then recharge the battery either using solar or line electricity during off-peak times. I watched a youtube video last night about others who are doing the same thing.......the brains behind the battery pack and the solar panels provide a wealth of data on usage......and allow homeowners to manipulate where they're getting their electricity from with easy-to-use apps......from anywhere in the world.
Related to batteries, I posted on my 'reporting from across the Pacific thread' about the proliferation of battery operated tools. I'd guesstimate that the percentage of battery operated lawnmowers/chainsaws/weedwhackers/blowers/and high end power tools is 70% of what's being sold....maybe higher. I bought our daughter an EGO power blower recently....56v lithium/5amp battery that runs over 90 minutes on a charge and blows out up to 650 cubic feet per minute on turbo mode (obviously drains the battery faster, but generally used only sparingly for tough spots). It comes with a 5 year warranty.
For good, bad, or otherwise, I doubt most consumers are concerned about the environmental impact of batteries, they want the convenience. Not much different from the masses who buy computers/phones/gizmos are aren't concerned about the difficulty/lack of recycling those things. It's all about convenience. No gas, no oil, no electrical cords. There probably won't be another oil shortage like I experienced in the mid-70's......waiting in long lines for gas.....but if/when there is, there's going to be a lot of Tesla/electric vehicle drivers who will be smiling.
Changing times!

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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by noosard » October 16, 2020, 6:07 am

Just curious about which ev cars have these super light batteries Whistler

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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by glalt » October 16, 2020, 8:46 am

parrot wrote:
October 15, 2020, 11:45 pm
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -not-last/

One of my brothers lives in California, had solar panels installed and a Tesla battery pack added to the house. He's able to moderate the amount of electricity used during peak times by using his battery pack, and then recharge the battery either using solar or line electricity during off-peak times. I watched a youtube video last night about others who are doing the same thing.......the brains behind the battery pack and the solar panels provide a wealth of data on usage......and allow homeowners to manipulate where they're getting their electricity from with easy-to-use apps......from anywhere in the world.
Related to batteries, I posted on my 'reporting from across the Pacific thread' about the proliferation of battery operated tools. I'd guesstimate that the percentage of battery operated lawnmowers/chainsaws/weedwhackers/blowers/and high end power tools is 70% of what's being sold....maybe higher. I bought our daughter an EGO power blower recently....56v lithium/5amp battery that runs over 90 minutes on a charge and blows out up to 650 cubic feet per minute on turbo mode (obviously drains the battery faster, but generally used only sparingly for tough spots). It comes with a 5 year warranty.
For good, bad, or otherwise, I doubt most consumers are concerned about the environmental impact of batteries, they want the convenience. Not much different from the masses who buy computers/phones/gizmos are aren't concerned about the difficulty/lack of recycling those things. It's all about convenience. No gas, no oil, no electrical cords. There probably won't be another oil shortage like I experienced in the mid-70's......waiting in long lines for gas.....but if/when there is, there's going to be a lot of Tesla/electric vehicle drivers who will be smiling.
Changing times!
I was skeptical about any battery powered tools for a number of years. I finally decided to give them a try. I bought my wife a battery powered leaf blower. The battery life and power are amazing. I now have a battery powered chain saw and a powerful battery operated hammer drill. Battery technology has improved to the point that I now believe that battery powered vehicles are indeed the future. The light weight compact no maintenance solar power batteries for home solar are still too expensive so I still use deep cycle lead acid batteries for my three home solar power systems.

As a side note, I didn't build the solar systems to save money. I went that way because the electric grid out here in the boonies goes down several times a week often for hours at a time. My computer, router and surveillance cameras go off when the grid fails and now run off my solar 24/7.

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