Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

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glalt
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by glalt » November 14, 2020, 6:36 pm

Solar irrigation in some areas is a dangerous practice. Farmers and industries have pumped so much water that the underground aquafers have been pumped dry. Many expensive deep wells have gone dry. Fortunately here in Thailand that is not likely. The rain here, when it comes, often is torrential and we have floods. Eventually those floods replenish the ground water. I have kept an eye on the ground water level. It does drop several feet and during the rainy season it comes back up. Desert areas have no rain to replenish the water tables.



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noosard
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by noosard » November 14, 2020, 9:04 pm

Whistler wrote:
November 14, 2020, 3:31 pm
I already quoted my source, do I remember word for word a conversation 13 years ago, nope, it took me a little while to remember the date, so what, it was a long time ago, what were you doing on the evening of the 5th of December 2013? Did I talk to the Mayor of Whyalla, absolutely. Is there a project in SA using parabolic mirrors on salt, yes.

You are hell of a nitpicker. I always said a well balanced kiwi is one with a chip on each shoulder.

There is no need to be rude to people about what they post, but it seems to be SOP for you. So from here on in I will ignore your bad manners and will no longer respond to your drivel.
You are a bs
your statement that there has been a solar farm that generates power 24/7 with molten salt 25 years ago in South Australia is a lie
your statement I saw this 2007 in Darwin is a lie
what maybe true is in 2007 your saw something in Darwin which was proposed
Because the farm was done till Oct 2016 and that is a fact

I do notice you like to name call when your bs is pointed out
Which makes you what ?

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tamada
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by tamada » November 14, 2020, 9:10 pm

30 all.

New handbags please.

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noosard
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by noosard » November 15, 2020, 7:15 am

tamada wrote:
November 14, 2020, 9:10 pm
30 all.

New handbags please.
What handbag do you recommend
and do you place a brick inside

glalt
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by glalt » November 15, 2020, 8:45 am

Sundrop farm is an absolutely brilliant concept. Distilling sea water into fresh water and using the steam to generate electricity is thinking out of the box. I would hope there are more companies trying this approach. It looks like they have covered all the bases, even keeping the mirrors clean.

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tamada
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by tamada » November 15, 2020, 9:23 am

^ Totally agree and the article, among other similar ones, references small-scale start-ups that other visionary companies have created in other countries. A case of finding a novel solution to an as-yet undefined problem.

This concept isn't new and I think the delays on integration have as much to do with economies of scale more than the recent push for renewables. It's not a one-size-fits-all technology. Like hybrid batteries versus Tesla batteries, sometimes the process needs to wait a technological breakthrough on an integral part or component before it can take the giant leap from growing sun-ripened tomatos to powering whole cities and industrial estates.

glalt
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by glalt » November 15, 2020, 9:37 am

Just a tip for those small home built solar systems. I had disappointing results when I first got into solar. Using the recommended amount of solar panels simply did not work for me. Batteries, even with deep cycle batteries, life is shortened from discharging them below 50 percent. On top of that I was amazed at the amount of dust that accumulated on the panels. Cloudy and rainy days had me going back on the grid to save the batteries. Getting on the roof and cleaning the panels was too dangerous for this old man. My first set of batteries were expensive AGM batteries. Those 4 batteries cost about 24,000 baht. I chose them because I kept them in the house. I did abuse them some and they lasted maybe 4 years. That was not a reasonable return on my investment. The next set was cheaper deep cycle flooded batteries that are kept outside. The problem still remained. I then went ahead and doubled up on the solar panels. Solar panels have a very long life. They now fully charge the batteries even on cloudy rainy days. A friend told me I was wasting electricity from having too many panels. That was true. So what? That extra energy is free anyways and the extra panels will outlive me. At first I was using the extra energy to feed the grid but the electric company put a stop to that. It is illegal. I can use the extra energy for the house but I don't bother because it is a pain to keep switching back and forth. If I were a techie could probably do that automatically but why bother. I am not interested in saving a little bit of money on my electric bill, I just want power 24/7. The electric grid here stinks.

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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by bluejets » November 15, 2020, 9:56 am

As a side note, there is an available no-feed-back relay one can add to a grid system but naturally those who make it must also make black boxes for motorcycles etc. as the cost is simply crazy given the internal components count.
Like most things though, any gear associated with the grid must be certified and approved so hacking not allowed.
You've done well Galt, I like your approach.
My best alternative approach is use excess energy generated to heat water in a storage hot water system.

glalt
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by glalt » November 15, 2020, 11:05 am

I looked for a bulk hot water storage tank and eliminate the instant shower heater. I was not able to find one with a low enough temperature setting. The thermostats lowest setting is still too hot and I don't want to change the plumbing for a mixer valve. I'm actually quite lazy.

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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by bluejets » November 16, 2020, 5:27 am

Yes, mixing valves can be quite expensive also for what they are.
I think around AU$200 these days.
Shouldn't be too difficult to rig up a thermistor relay to suit your needs.
ThermistorRelay.gif
ThermistorRelay.gif (5.69 KiB) Viewed 494 times

glalt
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by glalt » November 16, 2020, 10:23 am

I'm not smart enough to build electronic things and wouldn't have the patience anyways. I have often thought about installing a roof mounted solar heater but my neighbor's huge trees shade the area where it would need to be. Besides that the solar system holds a lot of water and I'm not sure if the roof would support it.

I was ready to pull the trigger and build a new house on one of her nearby farms. It is off the grid so the house would have to be 100 percent solar. My wife only wanted a big living room so we added on a room and the new house plan was forgotten. That saved me from spending a lot of money.

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noosard
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by noosard » November 16, 2020, 11:20 am

You could build a free standing tower for your solar hot water
Like some use to have gravity fed water to their house
Last year when I was in Vietnam, most house seem to have solar hot water
There were lots of shops selling solar hot water systems
Not sure why Thailand is not doing this

glalt
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by glalt » November 16, 2020, 12:02 pm

noosard wrote:
November 16, 2020, 11:20 am
You could build a free standing tower for your solar hot water
Like some use to have gravity fed water to their house
Last year when I was in Vietnam, most house seem to have solar hot water
There were lots of shops selling solar hot water systems
Not sure why Thailand is not doing this
There is still a three meter high stand where there was a 500 liter water tank. Unfortunately it too is shaded by huge trees. The reason the tower is no longer used is because it didn't have enough pressure to make the pressure switch in the new shower water heater. I haven't taken down the tower because it is on 4 concrete legs sunk in the ground. I haven't dug down but I suspect there is more concrete underground. As I have mentioned, I am a lazy guy.

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Barney
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by Barney » November 16, 2020, 6:28 pm

South Aussie and AGL still pushing forward with battery storage.



https://lnkd.in/dErxnBW


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Whistler
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by Whistler » November 16, 2020, 6:49 pm

Barney wrote:
November 16, 2020, 6:28 pm
South Aussie and AGL still pushing forward with battery storage.



https://lnkd.in/dErxnBW


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Makes sense Barney. There is of course the Adelaide Hills, but much of Southern SA is flat so batteries may be a good option. Long term, I hope that innovative projects like that in Port Augusta might proliferate. One thing for sure, Australians have a history of being good problem solvers. The issue of storing energy in 2040 will be vastly different than we see today.

Of course I will be ninety something by then, perhaps dribbling into my bib can be harnessed for good purpose.
Beam me up Scotty

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Barney
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by Barney » November 16, 2020, 8:45 pm

I wonder how many projects the democrats will try to take credit for.

https://bit.ly/36sL0CS


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glalt
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by glalt » November 16, 2020, 9:11 pm

I think batteries will be an important part of green energy at least for the near future. The encouraging thing is that with wind and solar working together, the batteries can be much smaller because wind will help balance the demand and the energy will not require such massive storage capacity.

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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by Barney » November 17, 2020, 9:30 am

Disagree that batteries will be smaller.
Perhaps that applies for small personal application where a 6 or 12 volt supply is required. Eg being cars, golf carts, wheelchairs, home solar etc. weight is a priority in many of those cases.
But , where huge battery storage is required in a mixed renewable system then the potential for large discharge is required on mains supply, then batteries will be larger.

Where large capacity renewable projects are needed don’t confuse small 12 volt batteries systems like home solar units with what will really be used in storage for major supplies.
At present a very large 2 volt battery cell can be used. Gel filled cells, as opposed to liquid filled cells, are becoming more in place where deep cycle and large discharge and less maintenance is required. Also with thousands of A/H capacity at the ready. I have installed in large substation 2 volt Gel filled cells weighing well above 55 kg each as back up.
Electric storage, charging of and monitoring systems is evolving constantly.


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glalt
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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by glalt » November 17, 2020, 12:14 pm

I have a friend who raised Sacha Inchi berries and processed them into oil. Unfortunately his farm was off the grid. He had built a very large solar system using those expensive 2 volt batteries. I'm not at all familiar with three phase solar systems. He needed three phase for two of the processing machines. I had suggested that he piggy back a number of smaller systems so if he had a problem he would still have electricity until he repaired the smaller system. Due to crop failures and other problems, he was struggling to make ends meet. I had asked him if he kept an eye on his battery bank voltage to protect his batteries. He told me that his hybrid charger inverter three phase controller protected the batteries. Anyways after a couple years the worst happened. The main brain, the controller died and he was dead in the water. He couldn't find anyone to repair the controller and he couldn't afford the $4,000 dollars for a new one. He gave up, took a financial beating and sold the farm along with the solar system and machinery. I had wanted him to part out the solar system and that I would buy some of the batteries and solar panels. He never even asked me what I wanted or how much I would pay. He had no income and just needed to get out quickly.

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Re: Solar/Wind energy for the future. Forget it

Post by bluejets » November 18, 2020, 6:48 am

glalt wrote:
November 16, 2020, 10:23 am
I have often thought about installing a roof mounted solar heater but my neighbor's huge trees shade the area where it would need to be. Besides that the solar system holds a lot of water and I'm not sure if the roof would support it.
Can't do much about the trees but there is an alternative to roof mount storage tank.
Use a standard collector and a standard storage ground tank.
Circulation is taken care of via a small diaphragm pump which mounts adjacent to the ground storage unit.
Temperature is monitored by the pump unit and water circulates when the roof array is higher than the ground storage unit.
Naturally one needs mains power for the pump and that brings us back once again to the basic storage tank with a solar panel driving the heater. :D

As for electronics, you'll find there are ready made plug and play modules made these days for just about anything one can imagine. The one shown is around AU$12.00 delivered.
Usually at 1/2 the price of the individual parts.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Control-Swi ... %3A2334524
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