ClimateGate busts things wide open

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Doodoo
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Doodoo » May 15, 2019, 6:44 pm

Laan Yaa Mo sorry to Nit Pick but Bill Nye is American born in Washington DC I believe

Is the world in trouble SURE IS and even if we do something about it, it will make us learn more and more which is Great as compared to doing NOTHING as others would wish to do, Sweet FCK all just sit and do nada



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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » May 15, 2019, 7:05 pm

Yes, you are right. In my last post on this subject, I corrected the error. Thanks.
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Doodoo » May 15, 2019, 7:27 pm

Not a problem looks like we posted nearly the same time

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by yartims » May 23, 2019, 5:12 pm

The world’s coastal cities have been warned to prepare for the possibility of a sea level rise exceeding 2 metres by the end of the century, with “profound consequences for humanity.”

A new assessment found runaway carbon emissions and melting ice sheets could result in such a worst case scenario, potentially double the upper limit outlined by the UN climate science panel’s last major report.

Such big sea level rises so soon would lead to nightmarish impacts, says Jonathan Bamber of the University of Bristol. “If we see something like that in the next 80 years we are looking at social breakdown on scales that are pretty unimaginable.”

Around 1.79 million square kilometres of land could be lost and up to 187 million people displaced. “Many small island states, particularly those in the Pacific, will effectively be pretty much inhabitable. We are talking about an existential threat to nation states,” says Bamber.

His team came to their conclusions after taking evidence from 22 leading researchers on how the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets might respond to future climate change.

Aggregating the responses revealed a one in twenty chance that seas could rise by more than 2 metres by 2100 if unchecked carbon emissions lead to average global warming of 5°C, about 2°C more than the temperature rises current government pledges would lead to.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/22 ... an-feared/
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by TJ » May 24, 2019, 1:05 am

I just came across this opinion which unfortunately is likely to be valid: "We're paying and will continue to pay to fix it whether it's a joke or not and it's always going to be our cash flowing to men as wealthy as George Soros, too. Reverse Robin Hood."

The climate change/global warming issues have proven to be so effective in expanding the powers of the state, increasing the flow of money into the pockets of politicians and their supporters, and building administrative empires that only some horrendous catastrophe of global proportians might diminish its usefulness to cultural Marxist for bringing about their Utopian dream of totalitarian socialism.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by tamada » May 24, 2019, 1:56 am

This is a good read on the matter of renewables and how they really can't save the world.

https://www.hartenergy.com/exclusives/h ... rgy-179986

And a link to the original article referenced in the above energy industry publication.

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/gre ... impossible

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » May 24, 2019, 4:05 am

If this article is to be believed, China is doing its part to destroy the ozone layer. This is despite the fact China signed international agreements to end their production of chlorofluorocarbons. However, it turns out that despite some success by the Chinese government in stopping some companies in producing it, China is more responsible than any other nation in depleting the ozone layer:
A chemical banned around the globe for the last 30 years has made an unfortunate resurgence. And all signs, in a new study, point to China as the culprit.

In the 1980s, countries came together to sign The Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer, a landmark treaty designed to halt and reduce the production of chlorofluorocarbons (CFC), chemicals used in fridges and foams that had the side effect of tearing through the Earth’s ozone layer.

The Montreal Protocol has been signed by 197 countries around the world, including Canada, the U.S., and China. As the ozone layer in our upper atmosphere slowly depleted — letting in an increasing amount of the sun’s ultraviolet rays — the protocol contributed to a significant reduction in harmful CFCs, which then allowed for a slow healing of the damaged ozone layer.

That is until last year, when scientists from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association found that global emissions of Trichlorofluoromethane (CFC-11) have actually been increasing since 2013.

The increase implied that someone was secretly violating the Montreal Protocol. But the limitations of measuring devices meant the location of the polluter could only be traced to somewhere in east Asia.

Now, in a new study published in Nature on May 22, scientists from the University of Bristol, Kyungpook National University, and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology found that between 40 and 60 per cent of total global CFC-11 emissions originate from eastern China.

With the help of an international network of measurement devices designed to identify and track gases in the atmosphere, the team behind the study found that data from their devices in Korea and Japan has spiked since 2013. After analyzing weather and wind patterns to determine the origin of the gas increase, it led them to eastern mainland China, around the Shandong province.

“It wasn’t entirely a surprise,” said Matthew Rigby, lead author of the study and Reader in Atmospheric Chemistry in the School of Chemistry at the University of Bristol. A few months after the initial report was released last year, both the Environmental Investigation Agency and the New York Times published reports in which Chinese manufacturers in the region confirmed they were using CFC-11 in the production of foams.

Someone in Asia is making a banned chemical that destroys the ozone layer, scientists suspect
The UN says the Earth’s ozone layer is healing, and should be completely repaired by the 2030s
Manufacturers told the EIA they continued to use the banned product because of its better quality and cheaper price. The New York Times reported that some factories were producing the gas in secret, while other manufacturers said the local governments turned a blind eye.

However, Rigby said scientists and watchdogs didn’t know just how much manufacturers in China were emitting — about 7,000 tonnes of CFC-11 since 2013 in that area alone.

“That’s more than double the emissions we were expecting from China at the time,” he said. “Was this enough to account for a substantial fraction of the global emissions rise that we saw? What we’ve found in this study is that, yes, it is globally significant.”

Rigby also mentions that CFC-11 is a greenhouse gas, about “5,000 times more potent than carbon dioxide at warming the climate.”

The Chinese government has been cracking down on illegal CFC-11 manufacturers and shutting down production facilities and Rigby hopes this new study will help law enforcement officials in their search for illicit producers.

Due to the limited locations of their monitoring network, Rigby said the study team cannot conclusively determine where the rest of the CFC emissions are coming from, pointing out they have no information on regions such as South America, western China and India.

According to a 2018 United Nations report, due to the progress of the Montreal Protocol, the huge ozone hole that forms above Antarctica could be completely healed by the mid-century.

But Rigby said if the increased emissions from eastern China aren’t stopped soon, the healing process could be delayed by “potentially decades.”


https://nationalpost.com/news/world/sci ... leting-gas
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by rick » May 24, 2019, 10:16 pm

tamada wrote:
May 24, 2019, 1:56 am
This is a good read on the matter of renewables and how they really can't save the world.

https://www.hartenergy.com/exclusives/h ... rgy-179986

And a link to the original article referenced in the above energy industry publication.

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/gre ... impossible
An interesting article, and while not particularly doubting the physics they do tend to ignore anything which does not fit 'their vision'.

Firstly they talk about renewables only provide 3% of Energy in the USA. A rather dubious figure. In the UK, in 2017, renewables provided 27.9% of Electricity, 7.7% of heating and 4.6% of transport energy. Is the USA really so behind? If renewables can capture a quarter of the electricity generation in 25 years, Not hard to believe it will be the main source of electricity generation in 25 more.

Second they only discuss solar, wind and batteries - which admittedly all have issues. They did not mention Hydro, tidal, wave, geothermal or biomass - maybe because all these are resources with much more predictable as to availability. No mention of energy storage other than batteries (which is currently an area with much innovation going on).

Thirdly no mention of the sustainability of fossil fuels. Their may be a glut of them at present, but supply is FINITE. Eventually, they will run out or become uneconomic to exploit - just like North sea oil and gas, and coal for the UK. OK, USA is a bigger country with more resources so will not run out soon, but they forget that in the 80's USA had to import oil? Also the oil crisis in the 70's taught countries one thing - you need to have control of your energy supplies, or you risk being held to ransom.

Then, of course, the elephant in the room - climate change. Nobody denies that fossil fuels are convenient and financially cheap, it is just that we pay for them in a different way.

Will we get to zero fossil fuels and all electric cars by 2040? I very much doubt it, but part of the way, yes.

They also assume we will always need more energy. Not necessarily, the UK has seen energy use decline nearly every year for the last 20 years.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by tamada » May 25, 2019, 8:02 am

^ Yes, the article is very much premised on the current situation in the much larger and more sparsely populated USA and doesn't presume to suggest that the smaller, more densely populated nations may not have a faster track to modernization and a lower cost of rebuilding and replacing the existing traditional power sources and power distribution networks to address ALL these new technologies. It's all about percentages here.

"If renewables can capture a quarter of the electricity generation in 25 years, Not hard to believe it will be the main source of electricity generation in 25 more."

What law of inverse physical improbability is that assumption firmly couched in? Just because it's twice as sunny, it's going to get twice as hot maybe?

Fossil fuels! So glad that you brought up all the old canards there. There was no/is no such thing as 'peak oil'. The earth's kitchen is still cooking. The North Sea isn't empty and neither are the Appalachian coal mines. With regard to oil crises, maybe you missed the significance of the fracking industry on the US's oil self-sufficiency? Yes, that is a finite resource but I haven't thrown the towel in yet on the E&P industry's proven ability to innovate and improve both exploration AND production. This applies not only in the traditional oil and gas provinces but in the frontier developments. The planet is hugely under-explored.

The fact that the world will need to consume more energy to drive the self-sufficient, more sustainable pathway forwards is pretty obvious. But there isn't a handy changeover switch and nothing that is currently being presented by all these renewables innovators suggests that there ever will be. Once again, the economies of the UK's recent energy usage only indicates that there are ways and means of improving things but there's no one-size fits all solution here.

I am not decrying that we have to start somewhere and that 'somewhere' should have been at least 25 years ago, long before the excellent Thomas Friedman coined the name 'New Green Deal' that was affixed to a rather OTT House Bill that recently crashed and burned. Yes it does need a wider vision but that vision presented by Sen. Markey and touted by Rep. AOC was far, far too wide. Renewables cannot be the same thing to everyone and neither can it be the same solution to all problems. There are still no silver bullets at the moment but there's still a lot of oil, gas and coal.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by yartims » June 1, 2019, 12:43 am

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -emissions


Scotland faces climate 'apocalypse' without action to cut emissions

Natural heritage chief warns of flooded and deserted towns, dead forests and polluted rivers

The head of Scotland’s nature conservation agency has warned the country faces an “apocalyse” of flooded towns, dead forests and polluted rivers unless urgent action is taken to cut CO2 emissions.

Francesca Osowska, chief executive of Scottish Natural Heritage, said the world had barely a decade to shift to a low carbon economy before the effects of global heating were irreversible and catastrophic. She said there were very clear threats facing Scotland, and by implication the rest of the UK, unless radical action was taken by 2030.

“Imagine an apocalypse – polluted waters; drained and eroding peatlands; coastal towns and villages deserted in the wake of rising sea level and coastal erosion; massive areas of forestry afflicted by disease; a dearth of people in rural areas; and no birdsong,” she told the Royal Society of Edinburgh on Thursday evening.


“All of this is possible, and there are parts of the world we can point to where inaction has given rise to one or more of these nightmare landscapes.”

Osowska said current levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere meant global heating of 1.5C was almost inevitable, requiring adaptation in the way people lived.
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by GT93 » June 1, 2019, 4:11 am

A stiff alcoholic drink before her speech might have chilled her a bit. The audience might have preferred the Royal Society offering one or two to the audience as well before hearing her bang on.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by noosard » June 1, 2019, 7:50 am

What has CO2 got to do with polluted rivers

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by AlexO » June 1, 2019, 8:43 am

So tiny Scotland has to cut emissions to have an affect on global climate change. Just what more can we do, we have no coal fueled power stations, no major coal fired industries. Most people use Natural Gas as their heating and cooking fuel. The SNP/Green administration have stated their aim is for the Country to be fossil fuel free in the next 20 years ( the SNP still want to extract every liter of oil and gas from the North Sea/North Western Atlantic fields and sell to other Countries thus contributing to Global Climate change, go figure) So Scotland is slowly being engulfed by huge numbers of wind farms that are having devastating affects on wild bird life not to mention the visual disgrace that these have on the natural beauty of the landscape. And what affect does this have on the overall Global CO2 emissions, virtually zilch but gives a platform to idiots such as Francesca Osowska. Just incidentally how much CO2 emissions do you think can be attributed to the manufacture of windmills, solar panels and batteries in the overall scheme of things.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by GT93 » June 1, 2019, 10:17 am

We all need to do something. OK, old codgers won't be affected much but I plan on being around another 30 years. Perhaps even on the Map. I'm expecting big changes in climate in that time.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by glalt » June 1, 2019, 10:24 am

There has been a lot of research as to how to keep birds away from windmills. Unfortunately the best methods are too expensive. A cheap effective method is sound waves that humans cannot hear, That sound disrupts the birds method of communication and makes them avoid those danger areas. The problem will eventually be solved if people care enough. During my last trip home to Ohio I was surprised to see hundreds of these windmills. I actually walked under one of those monsters and could barely hear the noise that people complain about. The power companies contracted for these huge wind machines but since fracking was developed, they are trying to get out of their long term contracts because natural gas is cheaper. Another sore spot is that most of those huge wind farms are foreign owned.

Like it or not. those wind farms are a CLEAN source of energy and people still complain about them.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by tamada » June 10, 2019, 10:38 pm

Scottish Power!

Batteries not included... for now.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ind-energy

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Lone Star » June 25, 2019, 9:16 am

The more things change, the more things stay the same. Image
Yes thinking algae blooms killing off lakes must be good because it's green, here's a whacky idea.
Except no one in this thread ever said that an amount of algae large enough to kill off lakes would be good. Winning an argument that isn't being made #1.
As a lot of marine life will die off perhaps we should just pollute the seas more, turn them green too.
Except no one ever called for polluting the seas. Winning an argument that isn't being made #2.
. strange how denialists who say man cannot change the climate jump on a NASA report on how the Co2 WE have pumped into the atmosphere and try to make out WE have changed the climate for the better
Except no one ever said that man cannot affect the climate. The issue is what, how and how much. Winning an argument that isn't being made #3.
So for all you "plants reap the benefits of Co2" realise this , the plants cannot benefit just on Co2, they also will need more NPK, they also need more sunlight, and to top it off more fresh water
Except no one ever claimed that plants benefit only on CO2. Winning an argument that isn't being made #4.

Winning arguments that no one else is making. It's what Believers do. There's enough straw men here to protect all of the corn fields in the State of Nebraska.
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by TJ » June 25, 2019, 1:54 pm

Here is one more scientific report that proves that the sea level is neither significantly rising nor decreasing. One can only hope that people finally recognize that AGW is a major hoax.

Abstract: Over the past decades, detailed surveys of the Pacific Ocean atoll islands show no sign of drowning because of accelerated sea-level rise. Data reveal that no atoll lost land area, 88.6% of islands were either stable or increased in area, and only 11.4% of islands contracted. The Pacific Atolls are not being inundated because the sea level is rising much less than was thought. The average relative rate of rise and acceleration of the 29 long-term-trend (LTT) tide gauges of Japan, Oceania and West Coast of North America, are both negative, −0.02139 mm yr−1 and −0.00007 mm yr−2 respectively. Since the start of the 1900s, the sea levels of the Pacific Ocean have been remarkably stable.

https://geoinfo.amu.edu.pl/qg/current/q ... 9-0007.pdf

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Lone Star » June 28, 2019, 1:29 pm

Outstanding announcement from the US Energy Information Administration . Renewable energy production, through wind and solar, provided 23% of America's electricity. Renewables surpassed coal-fired generation for the first time.

Coal only provided 20% of US electricity.
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by jackspratt » June 28, 2019, 1:39 pm

The good news is that positive things can still happen in the US, despite Trump. [-(
The Trump administration is again seeking severe cuts to the U.S. Energy Department division charged with renewable energy and energy efficiency research, according to a department official familiar with the plan.

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy would see its $2.3 billion budget slashed by about 70 percent, to $700 million, under President Donald Trump’s fiscal 2020 budget request, which is set to be released on Monday.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... gy-funding
:shock:

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