Lion Air Crash: Boeing 737 plane crashes in sea off Jakarta

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Lion Air Crash: Boeing 737 plane crashes in sea off Jakarta

Post by Udon Map » October 29, 2018, 2:15 pm

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From the BBC

A Lion Air Boeing 737 passenger plane with 188 people on board has crashed into the sea shortly after taking off from the Indonesian capital, Jakarta.

Flight JT 610 was on a scheduled flight to Pangkal Pinang, the main town in the Bangka Belitung Islands.

It lost contact with ground control a few minutes after take-off, and is believed to have ended up underwater.

There cause of the crash is not yet known and there has been no word yet of any survivors.

The plane was a Boeing 737 MAX 8, a brand new type of aircraft.

"The plane crashed into water about 30m to 40m deep," Search and Rescue Agency spokesman Yusuf Latif told AFP news agency. "We're still searching for the remains of the plane."

Items believed to belong to passengers have been found in the water, including ID cards and driver's licences, the search and rescue agency said on Twitter.

"We don't know yet whether there are any survivors," the agency's head, Muhmmad Syaugi, told reporters.

"We hope, we pray, but we cannot confirm."

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At an earlier news conference, officials said the plane had been carrying 178 adults, one infant and two babies, as well as two pilots and five cabin crew. However, there are conflicting reports on the exact number of people on board.

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What happened?

Flight JT 610 took off from Jakarta at 06:20 local time on Monday morning (23:30 GMT on Sunday).

It was due to arrive at Depati Amir airport in Pangkal Pinang an hour later but 13 minutes into the flight, authorities lost contact with the plane.

The pilot had asked to return to Jakarta's Soekarno-Hatta airport, the head of Pangkal Pinang's search and rescue office, Danang Priandoko, told local news outlet Kompas.

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The head of Indonesia's disaster agency, Sutopo Purwo Nugroho, has tweeted images which he said showed debris and personal belongings that came from the aircraft and had been found floating in the sea.

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He also shared a video he said had been taken from a tugboat off Karawang, just east of Jakarta, which appeared to show floating debris and an oil slick.

Debris was also seen near an offshore oil refinery operated by state-owned energy firm Pertamina, an official from the firm said.

What do we know about those on board?

Lion Air said in a statement that the pilot and co-pilot were experienced, with more than 11,000 flight hours between them.

Three of those on board were trainee flight attendants and one was a technician.

At least 20 employees from Indonesia's finance ministry were on board, the BBC has learned.

A spokesperson for Indonesia's Finance Ministry Nufransa Wira Sakti said they worked at the finance ministry offices in Pangkal Pinang but had been in Jakarta for the weekend. They routinely took this flight.


What do we know about this aircraft?

The aircraft was a Boeing 737 MAX 8, a model only in commercial use since 2016.

Lion Air said the aircraft involved in the crash was made in 2018 and has only been operated by the airline since 15 August this year.

Meant for short-haul travel, the single-aisle plane can fit a maximum of 210 passengers.

Edward Sirait, chief executive of Lion Air Group, told Reuters: "We don't dare to say what the facts are, or are not, yet.

"We are also confused about the why, since it was a new plane."

In a statement, Boeing expressed sympathy for the victims and families and said it "stands ready to provide technical assistance to the accident investigation".


How is Lion Air's safety record?

Indonesia, a vast archipelago, is heavily reliant on air travel, but many of its airlines have a poor safety record.

Lion Air is Indonesia's largest low-cost carrier, operating flights domestically as well as a number of international routes in South East Asia, Australia and the Middle East.

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Established in 1999, it has had issues of safety and poor management in the past and was banned from flying into European airspace until 2016.

In 2013, Lion Air flight 904 crashed into the sea on landing at Bali's Ngurah Rai International Airport. All 108 people on board survived. In 2004, flight 538 from Jakarta crashed and broke up on landing at Solo City, killing 25 people.

In 2011 and 2012 there was a spate of incidents where pilots were found in possession of methamphetamines, in one incident hours before a flight.


Courtesy of the BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46014463
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Lion Air Crash in Indonesia ( NO Survivors )

Post by 747man » October 30, 2018, 2:16 am

Search and rescue teams are working against high waves and strong currents, in an area spanning 150 nautical miles. The crash site is about 34 nautical miles away from the airport in Jakarta. The plane crashed minutes after taking off from that airport and crashed into the sea. A total of 189 people onboard were killed. No word on the cause, but weather is not believed to be a factor.

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing 737 plane crashes in sea off Jakarta

Post by Udon Map » October 30, 2018, 8:37 am

With weather not a factor and an aircraft only a few months old, sounds as though this might be added to the list of accidents caused by the single most common cause of air crashes, -- pilot error.

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing 737 plane crashes in sea off Jakarta

Post by parrot » October 30, 2018, 9:12 am

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ww ... LkO5ZC7jMw

AirAsia Thailand gets 2 big stars.......out of 3. Check that.......out of 5?........nope.....2 stars out of 7

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing 737 plane crashes in sea off Jakarta

Post by choi choi » October 30, 2018, 10:05 am

Apparently,there was a tecnical fault on the plane previous flight"But was resolved"
Black box results should show the reason. Nose dived at nearly 400 MPH!
Imagine the terror poor passengers had in those last minutes! Horrible.

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing 737 plane crashes in sea off Jakarta

Post by papafarang » October 30, 2018, 1:38 pm

yes I saw the graphic that showed shortly before the plane dropped suddenly a few thousand feet then started to climb again ,after a couple of mins it just nosed dived. maybe if the speed was too slow and it stalled ?
the world is not my home, I'm just a passenger

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing 737 plane crashes in sea off Jakarta

Post by vincemunday » October 30, 2018, 5:58 pm

I've never liked the 737, I've always had headaches when landing when I've used them, it's almost like they don't depressurise properly, I like them even less now.
"I don't risk my life for the sake of my children, I risk it for the sake of everyone's children" Stephen Yaxley-Lennon aka Tommy Robison - Free speech activist 2017

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing 737 plane crashes in sea off Jakarta

Post by Alchai » October 31, 2018, 6:20 pm

Udon Map wrote:
October 30, 2018, 8:37 am
With weather not a factor and an aircraft only a few months old, sounds as though this might be added to the list of accidents caused by the single most common cause of air crashes, -- pilot error.
However, the crew did request to return to the airport so maybe there was something wrong with plane.
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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing 737 plane crashes in sea off Jakarta

Post by Giggle » October 31, 2018, 6:40 pm

aliens... or George Bush.

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing 737 plane crashes in sea off Jakarta

Post by papafarang » October 31, 2018, 10:47 pm

Giggle wrote:
October 31, 2018, 6:40 pm
aliens... or George Bush.
only you could take the piss out of 180 people dying horrifically . but I expect no less of you
the world is not my home, I'm just a passenger

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing 737 plane crashes in sea off Jakarta

Post by saint » November 1, 2018, 1:22 pm

papafarang wrote:
October 31, 2018, 10:47 pm
Giggle wrote:
October 31, 2018, 6:40 pm
aliens... or George Bush.
only you could take the piss out of 180 people dying horrifically . but I expect no less of you
He needs help.

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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing 737 plane crashes in sea off Jakarta

Post by JimboPSM » November 1, 2018, 2:00 pm

It has been reported that there were sensor issues with the same Boeing 737 MAX 8 (PK-LQP) on Flight JT 43 – the flight that preceded JT 610.

Extract from the latest FlightRadar24 article on Flights JT 43 & JT 610:
..... Lion Air spokesman Danang Mandala Prihantoro notes that pilots of JT43, the flight operated by PK-LQP immediately prior to JT610, reported an issue with sensors on the aircraft used to calculate airspeed.

We [FlightRadar24] have now downloaded and processed granular ADS-B data from JT43.

Of specific interest are the data from the first approximately 11 minutes of flight.....

For the full FlightRadar24 article including charts & links:
While the charts of both flights appear to give some degree of credence to the theory of airspeed/altitude related sensor issues, it will only be after the data from the black boxes along with the operational and maintenance procedures have been analysed and the investigation has been completed that the full story will be known.

BBC News is now reporting that “the Black Box” has been retrieved (it is not clear whether this is the flight data recorder, the cockpit voice recorder or, hopefully, both).
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Re: Lion Air Crash: Boeing 737 plane crashes in sea off Jakarta

Post by tamada » November 1, 2018, 10:32 pm

Flight data recorder recovered. Standard 2 to 6 months analysis being cited.

I think it was malfunctioning air speed sensors that contributed to the AF 777 to nose dive into the Atlantic between Rio and Paris several years ago? I recall there being known issues with these sensors and the the airline was in the process of a fleet-wide retrofit? When an essential indicator malfunctions, the remaining instruments and pilots can make the wrong decisions like increasing the rate of climb, losing forward velocity and inducing the uncontrollable stall. At an altitude of around 6000', slim to no chance to recover.

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