Australia Burns

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AlexO
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Re: Australia Burns

Post by AlexO » January 23, 2020, 4:19 pm

saint wrote:
January 23, 2020, 9:16 am
Just looked it up , and according to the world bank Australias emissions are double that of China .
These figures are 6 years out of date , so do not include the recent fires ect .
Would tend to agree with you saint. A large percentage of Australia's emissions figures come from their mining and coking coal production operations. Just imagine the result of not selling to China. No market for the mine produce so no more mining. No more huge amounts of emissions from China or Australia, win, win situation.



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Australia Burns

Post by Barney » January 23, 2020, 7:39 pm

AlexO wrote:To those who wish to throw rocks at Australia for selling coal to China, you need to wake up and address the real source of the issue (World CO2 Emissions) and that it isn't who sells the raw material. It is the Demand by those Countries who’s domestic policies dictate that they still need to buy it (in this particular case Coal) for the long term and who Counties that openly embark on building Coal and or Other Powered Plants that use copious amounts of fossil fuels. I didn't see the Paris Agreement banning the sale of Coal and or Oil (the product that actually generates the emissions) around the world.

What Australia does related to their total country CO2 Emissions and or their sale of Coal to China, pales into insignificance, of what China’s actually does.


Sorry, but your argument does not hold water. If Australia (and others) did not sell coal to China how could they continue to burn coal and add 30% to the Worlds CO2 emissions. By selling coal to China you know you are deliberately contributing to Global Climate Change (assuming that there is such a thing) If everyone stopped selling coal to China they might have to find alternative ways of producing power. Or there again they might just come and take it, but that's another ballgame.
Wow a continuation of bashing the Aussie mining industry. It does make one laugh. Of course we won’t cease selling if there is a market out there. It’s up to the end user to come up with the high tech solutions for their use of coal. There seems to be an assumption that all coal is used for power generation. Mainly from the old brigade who lost there coal production years ago. Bit like a smoker giving up then advising smokers to stub out.
There is also no mention of pollution coming from steel mills use of coal. Which coincidentally makes us Aussies billions selling our biggest mining product Iron Ore.
But that same small island west of Europe where a lot of current forum detractors come from hasn’t quite lost all its steel plants yet. Which happens to buy and burn on an average 600,000 tons of imported coal a year thus polluting its way into the atmosphere.
So mr pot calling kettle black why doesn’t GB follow your educated lead and stop buying coal and iron ore. Shut down all your industries like you want everyone else to do.
Perhaps we could also stop mining and selling GB our uranium at the same time.


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Last edited by Barney on January 23, 2020, 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Australia Burns

Post by jackspratt » January 23, 2020, 8:01 pm

AlexO wrote:
January 23, 2020, 8:06 am
Sorry, but your argument does not hold water.
You have an argument to make re Australia's coal contribution.

But I note, after all the noise you made about the lack of prescribed burning, your total disregard of my post which blew your ill-informed comments out of the water. :?

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Re: Australia Burns

Post by noosard » January 24, 2020, 5:44 am

Maybe the world should pay Oz not to mine

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Re: Australia Burns

Post by noosard » January 24, 2020, 5:48 am

Had another thought the world should pay everyone not to mine
Lets go back to living like the stone age man

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Re: Australia Burns

Post by Kenr6583 » January 24, 2020, 6:35 am

Am I missing something? In 2018, Japan and India where the two largest importers of coal, with China being third. Why is China the only one being mentioned? Not sarcasm, serious question.

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Re: Australia Burns

Post by AlexO » January 24, 2020, 2:23 pm

noosard wrote:
January 24, 2020, 5:48 am
Had another thought the world should pay everyone not to mine
Lets go back to living like the stone age man
Stop moaning about climate change then (not you in particular). Even if we go back to the stone age we (the 7.7 Billion now on the planet as opposed to the approximate 10 million back then) would still have a significant affect on the CO2 levels. Huge numbers of cooking fires and land clearances to feed the billions of people required.

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Re: Australia Burns

Post by AlexO » January 24, 2020, 2:32 pm

Sorry, but your argument does not hold water. If Australia (and others) did not sell coal to China how could they continue to burn coal and add 30% to the Worlds CO2 emissions. By selling coal to China you know you are deliberately contributing to Global Climate Change (assuming that there is such a thing) If everyone stopped selling coal to China they might have to find alternative ways of producing power. Or there again they might just come and take it, but that's another ballgame.[/quote]

Wow a continuation of bashing the Aussie mining industry. It does make one laugh. Of course we won’t cease selling if there is a market out there. It’s up to the end user to come up with the high tech solutions for their use of coal. There seems to be an assumption that all coal is used for power generation. Mainly from the old brigade who lost there coal production years ago. Bit like a smoker giving up then advising smokers to stub out.
There is also no mention of pollution coming from steel mills use of coal. Which coincidentally makes us Aussies billions selling our biggest mining product Iron Ore.
But that same small island west of Europe where a lot of current forum detractors come from hasn’t quite lost all its steel plants yet. Which happens to buy and burn on an average 600,000 tons of imported coal a year thus polluting its way into the atmosphere.
So mr pot calling kettle black why doesn’t GB follow your educated lead and stop buying coal and iron ore. Shut down all your industries like you want everyone else to do.
Perhaps we could also stop mining and selling GB our uranium at the same time.


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[/quote]
Eh did you miss this one,
Would tend to agree with you saint. A large percentage of Australia's emissions figures come from their mining and coking coal production operations. Just imagine the result of not selling to China. No market for the mine produce so no more mining. No more huge amounts of emissions from China or Australia, win, win situation. Coking coal, Aus sells more of that than coal to China but still exports around 14 million tons of coal as well. I think you will find that the UK/EU has some of the strictest emission legislation on the Planet and you will find our Island has less emissions than Australia despite having a population of 40 million souls more than Aus.

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Re: Australia Burns

Post by AlexO » January 24, 2020, 2:42 pm

Kenr6583 wrote:
January 24, 2020, 6:35 am
Am I missing something? In 2018, Japan and India where the two largest importers of coal, with China being third. Why is China the only one being mentioned? Not sarcasm, serious question.
Sorry Ken
Don't know where you get your figures from, go checkout pipoz post of 15 Jan and look at the Pie Chart. Japan nowhere near the biggest contributor.

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Re: Australia Burns

Post by Kenr6583 » January 24, 2020, 6:43 pm

AlexO wrote:
January 24, 2020, 2:42 pm
Kenr6583 wrote:
January 24, 2020, 6:35 am
Am I missing something? In 2018, Japan and India where the two largest importers of coal, with China being third. Why is China the only one being mentioned? Not sarcasm, serious question.
Sorry Ken
Don't know where you get your figures from, go checkout pipoz post of 15 Jan and look at the Pie Chart. Japan nowhere near the biggest contributor.
I googled largest coal importers, Japan was number one, India number 2, and China number 3. This is from 2018.

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Re: Australia Burns

Post by noosard » January 24, 2020, 7:20 pm

lol
What I moan about is the slack goverments having not enforced easy policies to help
reforestation
solar panels on all new houses or developments
solar hot water

No they just put a tax on what we use
collect revenue that is not used on helping anyone but themselves
and all the hot air they produce now that should be taxed

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Re: Australia Burns

Post by AlexO » January 24, 2020, 7:31 pm

noosard wrote:
January 24, 2020, 7:20 pm
lol
What I moan about is the slack goverments having not enforced easy policies to help
reforestation
solar panels on all new houses or developments
solar hot water

No they just put a tax on what we use
collect revenue that is not used on helping anyone but themselves
and all the hot air they produce now that should be taxed
Completely agree, hypocritical Governments taxing everything they can think of in the name of emssion reductions but where does all that tax money go?? Head in the sand from most of them including the SNP (we will be fossil fuel free by 2030 but we will continue to sell our oil to other Countries)?? That helps global emission figures dosn't it.

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Re: Australia Burns

Post by pipoz4444 » January 24, 2020, 8:45 pm

Apologies for going Off Topic. Unrelated to Oz Bushfires

This is why people talk about and look at both China and India, when looking at the Pollution and CO2 Emissions increase in the World, today. It goes to metric volumes produced by each Country, their land mass (m2) relative to the rest of the World and their respective populations.(Refer Extract from Artcile at the end)

When two Countries contribute more than 34% of the world total CO2 Emissions, but when they only occupy 8% of the world’s total land mass, one needs to ask the question "Why".

When two Countries comprise 40% of the world total population, but only occupy 8% of the world’s total land mass, yet are responsible for 34% of the World CO2 emissions, one has to also ask "Why"

The size and density of Populations would appear to be a significant factor, for their CO2 emissions, for a number of reasons. Their lifestyle, their poverty, their daily needs and or demand for services, all factors which drive the increase in CO2 Emissions. This is not just limited to China and or India, but also for other countries who`s populations are too large for their land mass size and poverty stricken.

Simply put, more People per m2, the greater the demand on the Industries to produce and the likelihood of greater increase in CO2 Emissions, throughout the World to accomodate them, until technology comes along to help stem the tide.

I am not saying that the Industries and Power Stations of the world are not producing the emissions, they are. But the Industries and Power Stations only exist for one reason - the people demand and need them. If China, India and other countries continue to over populate the World, (with vast majority living in poverty) emission will simply continue to increase. Technology and reforming industries in the Western World can only do so much to reducing the CO2 Emission effect.

The World cannot continue down a path of uncontrolled growth in its Population. You have to stop the uncontrolled population growth, as well as address the emissions technology. Open the Link, the Clock for the World Population indicates that it is increasing at a rate of ONE person every second :-k :-k

https://populationmatters.org/the-facts ... UkEALw_wcB


Most Populous Countires.png





Article Extract: World’s Biggest CO2 Polluters and According to What Measure

No country on Earth produces more carbon dioxide than China and it isn’t even close. In fact, the next closest culprit is the United States which produces half as much carbon dioxide as China. China produces 9,000 million metric tons of carbon dioxide annually. The United States produces 5,000 million metric tons of CO2 annually.

The world’s third largest producer of CO2, INDIA, generates 2,000 million metric tons annually. But, India only has a geographic area of 2 million square miles. China and the United States both have an area of roughly 6 million square miles. Though the United States is three times as large as India, it only produces two and a half times the amount of carbon dioxide.

As such, it is fair to assume the United States is far more environmentally conscious than both China and India. And, it is equally fair to assume that, given India’s and China’s astronomical population explosion over the last five decades, as the two country’s population majority industrializes, emissions levels will continue to rise regardless of what the rest of the world manages to accomplish.

China: Of all global emissions, China produces a shocking 27%. China accounts for 3.22% of the world’s industry-related emission, 1.6% of the agricultural emission, and 0.45% of the world’s waste emissions. However, of all the energy emissions produced the majority of which is from the burning of coal to power electric plants, heating, and automobiles. China is responsible for 21.6% of what the world produces.

What makes those numbers even more staggering is the fact that China’s landmass only accounts for 6.3% of the total and China’s population, while larger than North and South America, Western Europe, Australia, and New Zealand combined, only accounts for 20% of the world’s total.

India: Though India only constitutes 2% of the world’s total land mass, it’s population constitutes 17% of the world’s total.

Together, China and India constitute almost 40% of the world’s population and 34% of its total emissions, but only 8% of its total land mass.
Last edited by pipoz4444 on January 28, 2020, 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Australia Day

Post by AussieBoy » January 26, 2020, 9:07 am

Thanks Captain Cook

Australia Day is the official national day of Australia. Celebrated annually on 26 January, it marks the anniversary of the 1788 arrival of the First Fleet of British ships at Port Jackson, New South Wales, and the raising of the Flag of Great Britain at Sydney Cove by Governor Arthur Phillip.
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Re: Australia Burns

Post by Earnest » January 26, 2020, 7:51 pm

The 'Forever fires' and Australia's new reality

Source: The Sydney Morning Herald

The forever fires? That seems quite bleak, what's a Winter like in NSW, chaps?

https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-for ... 53tk0.html
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Re: Australia Day

Post by jackspratt » January 26, 2020, 7:59 pm

AussieBoy wrote:
January 26, 2020, 9:07 am
Thanks Captain Cook

Australia Day is the official national day of Australia. Celebrated annually on 26 January, it marks the anniversary of the 1788 arrival of the First Fleet of British ships at Port Jackson, New South Wales, and the raising of the Flag of Great Britain at Sydney Cove by Governor Arthur Phillip.
WTF has this got to do with the thread heading - just as a reminder "Australia Burns"?

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Re: Australia Burns

Post by AlexO » January 26, 2020, 8:04 pm

Kenr6583 wrote:
January 24, 2020, 6:43 pm
AlexO wrote:
January 24, 2020, 2:42 pm
Kenr6583 wrote:
January 24, 2020, 6:35 am
Am I missing something? In 2018, Japan and India where the two largest importers of coal, with China being third. Why is China the only one being mentioned? Not sarcasm, serious question.
Sorry Ken
Don't know where you get your figures from, go checkout pipoz post of 15 Jan and look at the Pie Chart. Japan nowhere near the biggest contributor.
I googled largest coal importers, Japan was number one, India number 2, and China number 3. This is from 2018.

So what is Japan doing that only produces less than 4% of the planets CO2 emissions if they are burning so much coal. This is also because they had to shut down major nuclear power stations due to the tunamisi's. It is possible to burn coal semi cleanly but it costs money to do so. Something the Chinese and Indians dont seem to be interested in, spending money to help global emissions.

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Re: Australia Burns

Post by Earnest » January 26, 2020, 8:49 pm

:lol: I'm afraid Aussieboy marches to the beat of a different drum, Jack. It's why I posted the Sydney Morning Herald piece to bring us back on topic.
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Re: Australia Burns

Post by jackspratt » January 26, 2020, 9:05 pm

Thanks for the link, westers.

I read the article, and a couple of others on the site, and to say they were sobering is a gross understatement.

But Scotty from Marketing still calls the shots. Apparently the first day of the new parliament early next month will be set aside for recognition of the tragedy that has occurred in Oz over the past 3-4 months. I hope (but don't expect) that some progress will be outlined to sideline the troglodytes who are still firmly within the pockets of the destructive coal industry, and determining the policies within the governing parties.

As for Aussieboy - less said the better.

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Re: Australia Burns

Post by Earnest » January 28, 2020, 5:44 am

McManus seems to have a point though. The answer to dealing with these fires is complicated and not as simple as looking at proscribed burning and climate change.

I have never visited Australia.
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