America coming apart at the seams?

[mickojak]

If you disobey the state/country rules where you live, burn down police stations and lobby to de-fund the police, why should they come and help you when you are in trouble?
If I was a cop, risking my life day in, day out, I certainly wouldn't.
I'd be taking care of the people who respect me.
Sure, there's been a lot of police injustice been done over time, but, like everything the media pumps up, it's a tiny percentage of the total police organisation, and is blown out of proportion.

When the're de-funded the'll be gone anyway, so you might as well get used to it now.

Not too smart, this lot

[noosard]

Criminals want the defunding
Plays right into their hands
Every man for himself and fook the rest of you

[mickojak]

Noos,
I've been in South LA, and Compton, many times.
It's scary with cops.
Good luck when the're gone.

[newtovillagelife]

At least 85,000 law enforcement officers across the USA have been investigated or disciplined for misconduct over the past decade, an investigation by USA TODAY Network found.

Officers have beaten members of the public, planted evidence and used their badges to harass women. They have lied, stolen, dealt drugs, driven drunk and abused their spouses.

Despite their role as public servants, the men and women who swear an oath to keep communities safe can generally avoid public scrutiny for their misdeeds.

The records of their misconduct are filed away, rarely seen by anyone outside their departments. Police unions and their political allies have worked to put special protections in place ensuring some records are shielded from public view, or even destroyed.

Reporters from USA TODAY, its affiliated newsrooms across the country and the nonprofit Invisible Institute in Chicago spent more than a year creating the biggest collection of police misconduct records.

Obtained from thousands of state agencies, prosecutors, police departments and sheriffs, the records detail at least 200,000 incidents of alleged misconduct, much of it previously unreported. The records obtained include more than 110,000 internal affairs investigations by hundreds of individual departments and more than 30,000 officers who were decertified by 44 state oversight agencies.
Among the findings:

Most misconduct involves routine infractions, but the records reveal tens of thousands of cases of serious misconduct and abuse. They include 22,924 investigations of officers using excessive force, 3,145 allegations of rape, child molestation and other sexual misconduct and 2,307 cases of domestic violence by officers.
Dishonesty is a frequent problem. The records document at least 2,227 instances of perjury, tampering with evidence or witnesses or falsifying reports. There were 418 reports of officers obstructing investigations, most often when they or someone they knew were targets.
Less than 10% of officers in most police forces get investigated for misconduct. Yet some officers are consistently under investigation. Nearly 2,500 have been investigated on 10 or more charges. Twenty faced 100 or more allegations yet kept their badge for years.



I would say that at least 10% of cops are bad, which is disgusting, but understandable. Not much separating a criminal from a dirty cop.

One thing for sure it's a bigger problem than is recognized. I know lots of cops who started out trying to do the right thing, but were berated by their peers, for always Following the Book, which of course is the LAW.

[noosard]

You been to Alice after dark
Day time is bad enough
So La La land is scary with cops without would be terrifying
And yes I have been to parts of LA where a white face is not welcomed
First time I went to LA took a bus from the airport to the train station
It was just after the Rodney **** riots
A right eye opener for a country boy
Same as people I met in New York a few weeks later
I had ridden the trains for weeks by then
New Orleans Chicago Washington DC then NY
I met some local lasses and they had never been on the subway
To them far to dangerous

[mickojak]

NTV,
Just googled.
800,000 cops in USA.
They are human, so, sure, a percentage will be corrupt.

But, when you're in the nonsense, big time, you hope you can call, and get some help.

That's the best our society can do.

If someone's got a better system, please let me know?

I've only had good dealings with cop's, except for the odd angry one, but everyone has bad days.
Also, I'm not black, nor a criminal, so can only speak for myself.

I actually know a few cops, and they are genuine.

[glalt]

I have a good friend who retired as an LA county deputy sheriff. He is a big tough guy and wouldn't put up with any abuse. Anyone who spit in his face would get a big fist in his face and their nose would usually be broken.

He knows that no way could he be a cop today and that he would likely end up fired or in jail because he demanded respect. Any woman wo spit in his face wouldn't get a fist in the face but they would get slapped aside the head.

[jackspratt]

He knows that no way could he be a cop today and that he would likely end up fired or in jail because he demanded respect. Any woman wo spit in his face wouldn't get a fist in the face but they would get slapped aside the head.

I have always believed that you earned respect ...... you have no right to demand it just because you have a badge, a gun and a corrupt criminal justice system behind you.

Hence where we are today.

[pipoz4444]

Corruption is as old as prostitution and its will always be around for those who wish to F..k with it

Name me one country that is free of Corruption, and I don't mean low corruption rate, I mean "Free"

Name me one Industry/sector that is not corrupt in America or any other Country for that matter?

I will start with the obvious corrupt industries/sectors, in no particular order,
1.Banking
2.Politicians and or Government Department
3.Financial Trading
4.Construction Industry
5.Pharmaceutical Manufacturers
6.Heath Care Sector/Industry
7.Social Welfare system
8.Insurance Industry
9. Bank Robbery (Maybe not considered an Industry to some, but is a profession to Others)
10.Law (Police) and Legal System (Judges Lawyers and the like)

Hard to find any information on these industries/sectors, that Ranks/Rates them from Most Worst to just Bad?, but we all know it exist within each of them.

So, if you are telling me that their are now 800,000 police in the USA (and that over the past 10 year period 85,000 police have been investigated), then that would tend to also indicate, that over this past 10 years some 1,100,000 plus, (probably more than 1,100,000) policemen and policewomen, may have past through the revolving door of the Police Employment system in the USA, and that out of this 1,100,000 Police (as a guess) 85,000 of them have been investigated in the 10 years = 7.73% of them. investigated, presumably for a wide range of issues.

At the same time, this would suggest that vast majority 90% plus of policemen and policewomen that have pasted through the Police Employment system, have not been investigated over the past 10 years.

Allowing for some room for error, for those not caught and those not investigated, then the vast majority, some 80% of the Police Force, must be doing their job in a honest way, or have I missed something.

I wonder if one could say the same about 1, 2, 3 and 8 above, especially 1 and 2

pipoz4444

[noosard]

Would have added 4, and 7 to especially list

[Khun Paul]

I will swing the lamp here, but as a Police Officer it is so easy for a complaint to be made against you, the bosses fall over backwards to accept the Member of the Publics claim that you as an individual POLICE OFFICER did something wrong .
Suspension, investigation , leaves a lasting impression on one, I can tell you even when it is proven to be a tissue of lies thought up by the complainer, officers are moved possibly to protect them, but the vast majority are just Officers doing their duty the best way possible .
Even more so these days, Phones are quick to record Police actions, rarely do they tell the whole story as to way a officer acted the way he did to a particular person.
The latest from America involving deaths, one of them at the hands of a Police Officer I do not condone in any way at all neither is shooting them dead.
I thank god that British Police generally do not carry Firearms on daily duty , we learn to talk to people , something in my times in America I have found officers disinclined to do .

I have never accepted corruption as a way to do my job, even at the expense of how others think of me, I never turned a blind eye nor accepted any cash , although I was offered many times. The resulting refusal upset the offender on many occasions, borne out by the sentence he received for his offence and attempting to bribe a Police officer.

[newtovillagelife]

I will swing the lamp here, but as a Police Officer it is so easy for a complaint to be made against you, the bosses fall over backwards to accept the Member of the Publics claim that you as an individual POLICE OFFICER did something wrong .
Suspension, investigation , leaves a lasting impression on one, I can tell you even when it is proven to be a tissue of lies thought up by the complainer, officers are moved possibly to protect them, but the vast majority are just Officers doing their duty the best way possible .
Even more so these days, Phones are quick to record Police actions, rarely do they tell the whole story as to way a officer acted the way he did to a particular person.
The latest from America involving deaths, one of them at the hands of a Police Officer I do not condone in any way at all neither is shooting them dead.
I thank god that British Police generally do not carry Firearms on daily duty , we learn to talk to people , something in my times in America I have found officers disinclined to do .

I have never accepted corruption as a way to do my job, even at the expense of how others think of me, I never turned a blind eye nor accepted any cash , although I was offered many times. The resulting refusal upset the offender on many occasions, borne out by the sentence he received for his offence and attempting to bribe a Police officer.

Congrats on being a competent and law abiding Police Officer over your career.

However your last paragraph implies that some of your peers may have been corrupt, and not happy with your behavior. Also the many times criminals have offered you bribes, and you have had to turn them down, again leads us to believe that Police accepting bribes is commonplace.

The real question is whether you were complacent, while knowing some of your peers were corrupt.

[noosard]

Last paragraph may imply knowledge of corruption amongst peers
or it may imply even outside law enforcement other expected what was not right
and not been given it poor old bobby was abused

[glalt]

If you really believe the police are bad now, just wait a while. Who in their right mind would want to be a policeman except people who shouldn't be. The police unions already protect those who should have never been police to start with. Sitting in a donut shop is far preferable to being insulted on the streets. It's a good job for those who don't care about doing the job. Write a few traffic violations for tourists passing through and ignore any crimes.

[noosard]

For police killing others Native americans in 2016 are killed at 10.13 per million
Blacks 6.66 per milliom
Hispanic 3.23 per million
Whites 2.9 per million
Asian and Pac Islanders 1.17

[pipoz4444]

Would have added 4, and 7 to especially list

Yes, can agree, but I have a soft spot for No 4 and

[noosard]

So do I, was in the construction industry my working life
Mainly in South East Queensland but spent a year in Vic and 2 in Western Aus

[pipoz4444]

Why not try and put some level of definition on what Corruption is or could be, in this day & age and I don't just mean look up the Dictionary meaning.The world has moved on from say 70 years ago, and different opportunities and ways of corruption have materialized, so lets start;

Some present day examples of corruption that I can think of are,
1. A Person and or Organization, who takes Payment (in the form of money or an gift or ........) in return for doing something illegal.

2. A Person and or Organization who deliberately defrauds others out of money or possessions (Wells Fargo Account Fraud Scandal and say B Madoff with his Ponzi Scheme)

3.An organization and or Individual that extorts money from someone. (This could even be the Tax Office when they deliberately target persons and threaten very heavy penalties and in some cases unfairly freezing a persons assets, unless the person agrees to settle, knowing the person cant afford the cost of fighting it in Court, this extorting him to Pay the TO's figure)

4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Human Resources Dept's that hand out jobs/positions to Family and Friend members when those F & FM's are often are not the best qualified individuals for the position or in some case are not even qualified at all. this is not Nepotism, this is "Corruption" and it happens all over the World in Government and Private Sectors


It might be hard for some to resist, but lets try and keep this non Political and avoid bring Politicians from both side of the aisle into it.

pipoz4444

[semperfiguy]

Why not try and put some level of definition on what Corruption is or could be, in this day & age and I don't just mean look up the Dictionary meaning.The world has moved on from say 70 years ago, and different opportunities and ways of corruption have materialized, so lets start;

Some present day examples of corruption that I can think of are,
1. A Person and or Organization, who takes Payment (in the form of money or an gift or ........) in return for doing something illegal.

2. A Person and or Organization who deliberately defrauds others out of money or possessions (Wells Fargo Account Fraud Scandal and say B Madoff with his Ponzi Scheme)

3.An organization and or Individual that extorts money from someone. (This could even be the Tax Office when they deliberately target persons and threaten very heavy penalties and in some cases unfairly freezing a persons assets, unless the person agrees to settle, knowing the person cant afford the cost of fighting it in Court, this extorting him to Pay the TO's figure)

4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Human Resources Dept's that hand out jobs/positions to Family and Friend members when those F & FM's are often are not the best qualified individuals for the position or in some case are not even qualified at all. this is not Nepotism, this is "Corruption" and it happens all over the World in Government and Private Sectors


It might be hard for some to resist, but lets try and keep this non Political and avoid bring Politicians from both side of the aisle into it.

pipoz4444

Corruption runs deep in Thailand and most everyone in every profession has their pet schemes for defrauding others. My wife's daughter is a government teacher. Kasikorn Bank gives her school 200,000 baht per year for a youth lunch program and the school director steals half the fund each year. The school system pays her school money to reimburse the teachers for expenses related to driving to meetings or visiting the parents of students, but the director keeps the money and makes the teachers pay their own way out of their salary. These school directors know every trick in the book to skim money off school programs and it's common practice for most every school director. That's why the position is so coveted.

[jai yen yen]

Corruption is everywhere but Thailand takes it to a much higher level.