How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

World news discussion forum
Post Reply
User avatar
Laan Yaa Mo
udonmap.com
Posts: 9153
Joined: February 7, 2007, 9:12 am
Location: ขอนแก่น

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » June 4, 2021, 3:41 am

A match made in Heaven, Texpat and Jack. They could go out on the wrestling circuit as a tag team.


You only pass through this life once, you don't come back for an encore.

User avatar
jackspratt
udonmap.com
Posts: 16056
Joined: July 2, 2006, 5:29 pm

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by jackspratt » June 4, 2021, 5:56 am

Udon Map wrote:
June 3, 2021, 11:53 pm
jackspratt wrote:
June 3, 2021, 5:58 pm
No, I meant to discuss how did a state founded on terrorism in 1948 achieve international credibility to the point where it can continue to force Palestinians off their land for Jewish settlements, and move further towards appropriating the entire city of Jerusalem as part of Israel.
See comments upthread for history of whose land it is. You're starting to remind me of Gigs, ignoring facts which are inconsistent with your beliefs or the narrative you're trying to advance.
The history of ownership of the Palestinian lands has been heavily contested for millennia - the Jews had no greater claim to it than the Palestinians.

That is a fact that you seem happy to ignore or downplay in advancing your own narrative.

User avatar
noosard
udonmap.com
Posts: 3998
Joined: April 17, 2011, 4:07 am
Location: Ban Jumpa Udon
Contact:

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by noosard » June 4, 2021, 7:32 am

Possession is nine-tenths of the law

User avatar
AlexO
udonmap.com
Posts: 2505
Joined: June 8, 2015, 11:45 am
Location: Nong Lat Udon

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by AlexO » June 4, 2021, 8:36 am

jackspratt wrote:
June 4, 2021, 5:56 am
Udon Map wrote:
June 3, 2021, 11:53 pm
jackspratt wrote:
June 3, 2021, 5:58 pm
No, I meant to discuss how did a state founded on terrorism in 1948 achieve international credibility to the point where it can continue to force Palestinians off their land for Jewish settlements, and move further towards appropriating the entire city of Jerusalem as part of Israel.
See comments upthread for history of whose land it is. You're starting to remind me of Gigs, ignoring facts which are inconsistent with your beliefs or the narrative you're trying to advance.
The history of ownership of the Palestinian lands has been heavily contested for millennia - the Jews had no greater claim to it than the Palestinians.

That is a fact that you seem happy to ignore or downplay in advancing your own narrative.
Pratt
Your ignorance continues to astound me.

"Palestinian citizenship has developed over the last century, starting during the British Mandate era and in different form following the Oslo Peace process, with the former British Mandate definition (before 1925)[1] including the Jews of Palestine and the Arabs of Jordan, and the latter excluding the Arabs of Jordan (at this point part of the sovereign country of Jordan). There has never been a sovereign Palestinian authority to explicitly define who is a Palestinian, but the term evolved from a geographic description of citizenship to a description of geographic citizenship with an Arab ethnicity."

Why do you think Arabs keep so called Palestinian refugees in refugee camps instead of assimilating them into the Arab/Muslim Brotherhood. Not seen as real Arabs.

Suppose if not published in a certain rag or on ABC its not seen as facts rather than just opinions.
I personally have no time for any religion but do acknowledge that Moses and his crew were all around for millennia before any Palestinians stuck their heads above the parapet.

User avatar
rick
udonmap.com
Posts: 3238
Joined: January 9, 2008, 10:36 am
Location: Udon, or UK May-August

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by rick » June 4, 2021, 10:41 am

AlexO wrote:
June 3, 2021, 7:27 pm
rick wrote:
June 3, 2021, 6:22 pm
Yes, built on terrorism. This is a list of the attacks by one of the jewish terrorist groups, before Israel came into existence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_operations

Over 70 listed attacks
So we have to just ignore the more than 6 million Jews who were exterminated by the Nazi's and Russians during WW2 and the prior attempts before the 1930's to destroy the first modern religion and these guys are not allowed to defend/try to ensure their Promised Land became a fact.
Just compare how many died in the Irish rebellion in 1916 when the cowards knew the UK was fighting to exist against Germany and how many women and children were massacred by the IRA in the 1970's /80's and/90's yet they are not Terrorists.
Is in the words of the Pratt, Ireland a Nation built on Terrorism??
Quite a few on your list were leaders of Arab extermination gangs who were targeted in an attempt to stop innocent civilians from being slaughtered.
Is Ireland a nation of terrorists who have obtained international recognition or do you just hate the Jews and agree with Pratt.
The holocaust was a European problem. Why should the Palestinians have to pay for it? For Europe, the creation of Israel meant the problem went away. Israel has lived on that collective guilt ever since.
Yes, Ireland was built partially by terrorism. The difference was that the Catholics had always been there, and were a majority. Now, if the Irish rebellion had been crushed, and the majority of Catholics expelled from Ireland, would that have been fair? Then you would have had a situation more like Palestine.

Now, many countries only came into existence due to rebellions, which were often bloody. The USA came into existence due to a rebellion, and atrocities were committed by both sides. But there was no wholesale expulsion of the loyalists. A country which expels significant numbers of its own indigenous population is carrying out ethnic cleansing - something we consider abhorrent these days, but Israel gets a free pass. Yes the Arab countries in the middle-east (and elsewhere) were, and still are equally as bad. Until Israel treats ALL Palestinians fairly I cannot support them.

User avatar
Giggle
udonmap.com
Posts: 1895
Joined: October 18, 2016, 4:24 pm
Location: In your head

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by Giggle » June 4, 2021, 1:09 pm

A country which expels significant numbers of its own indigenous population is carrying out ethnic cleansing
The State of Israel has a population of approximately 9,227,700. Some 74.24% are Jews of all backgrounds (about 6,829,000 individuals), 20.95% are Arab of any religion other than Jewish (about 1,890,000 individuals), while the remaining 4.81% (about 434,000 individuals) are defined as "others."

Twenty one percent escaped being cleansed? Israel sucks at ethnic cleansing.
Ashli Babbitt -- SAY HER NAME!

User avatar
Udon Map
Admin
Posts: 2832
Joined: July 31, 2013, 7:57 pm

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by Udon Map » June 4, 2021, 5:42 pm

jackspratt wrote:
June 4, 2021, 5:56 am
Udon Map wrote:
June 3, 2021, 11:53 pm
jackspratt wrote:
June 3, 2021, 5:58 pm
No, I meant to discuss how did a state founded on terrorism in 1948 achieve international credibility to the point where it can continue to force Palestinians off their land for Jewish settlements, and move further towards appropriating the entire city of Jerusalem as part of Israel.
See comments upthread for history of whose land it is. You're starting to remind me of Gigs, ignoring facts which are inconsistent with your beliefs or the narrative you're trying to advance.
The history of ownership of the Palestinian lands has been heavily contested for millennia - the Jews had no greater claim to it than the Palestinians.

That is a fact that you seem happy to ignore or downplay in advancing your own narrative.
I haven't ignored anything. You are correct in your statement that "The history of ownership of the Palestinian lands has been heavily contested for millennia". But the fact that something is contested doesn't mean that reality is up for grabs. Nearly everything is contested, if only by a small group. There are those who believe, for example, that the earth is flat. Some believed throughout the 1960s and possibly beyond that President Kennedy didn't die in the assassination "attempt" in Dallas, but that he was being kept alive artificially on the top floor of Parkland Hospital in Dallas. And some people even believe that Trump won the 2020 election. Some believe that Paul McCartney is dead, too. The fact that there are people who challenge conventional thought does not, by itself, lend any amount of credibility to the beliefs of the challengers. Challenges like this are, after all, the raison d'être for Snopes.com.

Can you direct me to any evidence that Palestinians existed as a people prior to Arafat's birth?

User avatar
rick
udonmap.com
Posts: 3238
Joined: January 9, 2008, 10:36 am
Location: Udon, or UK May-August

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by rick » June 5, 2021, 12:26 am

Giggle wrote:
June 4, 2021, 1:09 pm
A country which expels significant numbers of its own indigenous population is carrying out ethnic cleansing
The State of Israel has a population of approximately 9,227,700. Some 74.24% are Jews of all backgrounds (about 6,829,000 individuals), 20.95% are Arab of any religion other than Jewish (about 1,890,000 individuals), while the remaining 4.81% (about 434,000 individuals) are defined as "others."

Twenty one percent escaped being cleansed? Israel sucks at ethnic cleansing.
Your quoting the CURRENT situation. 100 years ago, there were less than 100,000 Jews in Palestine. Palestinian Arabs were the majority in Palestine (about 87%). They were still the majority in 1947. 50% of the Palestinian Arab population were displaced in the fighting/cleansing during 1947-1949, over 500 Palestinian villages and towns were destroyed/depopulated. That is pretty serious ethnic cleansing.
I know the USA was much better at ethnic cleansing, only 1.3% of the population are now indigenous people. Mind you, it took a couple of hundred years. The Jews did there effort in under 2 years.

User avatar
jackspratt
udonmap.com
Posts: 16056
Joined: July 2, 2006, 5:29 pm

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by jackspratt » June 5, 2021, 10:36 am

AlexO wrote:
June 4, 2021, 8:36 am

Pratt
Your ignorance continues to astound me.
Alex, if ignorance was a gold medal sport, you could pack your bags for Tokyo next month.

Get back to me on that topic when you have an understanding of the terms "racist" and "anti-Semite", both of which you have accused me of on a number of occasions.
"Palestinian citizenship has developed over the last century, starting during the British Mandate era and in different form following the Oslo Peace process, with the former British Mandate definition (before 1925)[1] including the Jews of Palestine and the Arabs of Jordan, and the latter excluding the Arabs of Jordan (at this point part of the sovereign country of Jordan). There has never been a sovereign Palestinian authority to explicitly define who is a Palestinian, but the term evolved from a geographic description of citizenship to a description of geographic citizenship with an Arab ethnicity."
Lifted from here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... lestinians

At the top of that article appears this:
Capture.PNG
Alex

Why do you think Arabs keep so called Palestinian refugees in refugee camps instead of assimilating them into the Arab/Muslim Brotherhood. Not seen as real Arabs.
In some part, probably due to this - but irrelevant to the issue:
The Arab League has instructed its members to deny citizenship to original Palestine Arab refugees (or their descendants) "to avoid dissolution of their identity and protect their right to return to their homeland"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestini ... _note-p-80
Alex
Suppose if not published in a certain rag or on ABC its not seen as facts rather than just opinions.
Irrelevant tosh - see above re "ignorance".
Last edited by jackspratt on June 5, 2021, 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jackspratt
udonmap.com
Posts: 16056
Joined: July 2, 2006, 5:29 pm

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by jackspratt » June 5, 2021, 10:42 am

Udon Map wrote:
June 4, 2021, 5:42 pm
I haven't ignored anything. You are correct in your statement that "The history of ownership of the Palestinian lands has been heavily contested for millennia". But the fact that something is contested doesn't mean that reality is up for grabs. Nearly everything is contested, if only by a small group. There are those who believe, for example, that the earth is flat. Some believed throughout the 1960s and possibly beyond that President Kennedy didn't die in the assassination "attempt" in Dallas, but that he was being kept alive artificially on the top floor of Parkland Hospital in Dallas. And some people even believe that Trump won the 2020 election. Some believe that Paul McCartney is dead, too. The fact that there are people who challenge conventional thought does not, by itself, lend any amount of credibility to the beliefs of the challengers. Challenges like this are, after all, the raison d'être for Snopes.com.

Can you direct me to any evidence that Palestinians existed as a people prior to Arafat's birth?
Plenty of red herrings in there UM.

The "contested" part is quite clear, and has widespread recognition.

To be clearer, perhaps I should have said:

"The history of ownership of the Palestinian lands has been heavily contested for millennia - the Jews had no greater claim to it than the Arabs in Palestine."

User avatar
Udon Map
Admin
Posts: 2832
Joined: July 31, 2013, 7:57 pm

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by Udon Map » June 7, 2021, 8:22 am

jackspratt wrote:
June 5, 2021, 10:42 am
To be clearer, perhaps I should have said:

"The history of ownership of the Palestinian lands has been heavily contested for millennia - the Jews had no greater claim to it than the Arabs in Palestine."
On what facts do you base your conclusion? By what objective criteria do you determine who has the greater claim?

User avatar
tamada
udonmap.com
Posts: 17179
Joined: February 21, 2007, 4:03 am
Location: Down two...then left

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by tamada » June 7, 2021, 10:19 am

^ Objective criteria? I guess that rules out the scriptures and all the other religious fairy tales then.

User avatar
jackspratt
udonmap.com
Posts: 16056
Joined: July 2, 2006, 5:29 pm

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by jackspratt » June 7, 2021, 11:02 am

I am not interested in dancing in circles with you UM.

If you disagree with my contention in the OP, that is fine. I am happy to stay with it.

User avatar
AlexO
udonmap.com
Posts: 2505
Joined: June 8, 2015, 11:45 am
Location: Nong Lat Udon

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by AlexO » June 7, 2021, 2:38 pm

tamada wrote:
June 7, 2021, 10:19 am
^ Objective criteria? I guess that rules out the scriptures and all the other religious fairy tales then.
Tam
Not going to disagree with you but you post your 'opinion' whereas billions of people on this planet believe in a higher being, life after death etc.
Just be careful that you are not catching the Pratt Syndrome where everything he posts is factual, not just an opinion and has to be believed unless you are an uneducated moron.
Amusing to see he has dropped out of his racist thread when he cannot better UM in arguments'
PS
Have a good trip.

User avatar
Udon Map
Admin
Posts: 2832
Joined: July 31, 2013, 7:57 pm

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by Udon Map » June 7, 2021, 5:37 pm

Udon Map wrote:
June 7, 2021, 8:22 am
jackspratt wrote:
June 5, 2021, 10:42 am
To be clearer, perhaps I should have said:

"The history of ownership of the Palestinian lands has been heavily contested for millennia - the Jews had no greater claim to it than the Arabs in Palestine."
On what facts do you base your conclusion? By what objective criteria do you determine who has the greater claim?
jackspratt wrote:
June 7, 2021, 11:02 am
I am not interested in dancing in circles with you UM. If you disagree with my contention in the OP, that is fine. I am happy to stay with it.
Not interested in facts? Or, put slightly differently, when asked for an even somewhat fact-based basis for your opinion, you opt out.

User avatar
jackspratt
udonmap.com
Posts: 16056
Joined: July 2, 2006, 5:29 pm

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by jackspratt » June 7, 2021, 5:43 pm

AlexO wrote:
June 7, 2021, 2:38 pm

Just be careful that you are not catching the Pratt Syndrome where everything he posts is factual, not just an opinion and has to be believed unless you are an uneducated moron.
Amusing to see he has dropped out of his racist thread when he cannot better UM in arguments'
I'll duck back in when there is some more discussion on the subject of the OP eg when you acknowledge the content of post #6 on page 1.

Oh, and also if you ever get around to educating yourself as to the meanings of "racist" and "anti-Semitism". 👍

User avatar
Declan MacPherson
udonmap.com
Posts: 1137
Joined: June 2, 2019, 5:59 pm

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by Declan MacPherson » June 7, 2021, 5:55 pm



Do You Think Israel Should Cease to Exist?
If you seek to destroy the one and only Jewish state, you don’t have to hate every Jew to be an anti-Semite.
logic is lost on the hateful . excellent
"Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil." - Ephesians 6:11

User avatar
jackspratt
udonmap.com
Posts: 16056
Joined: July 2, 2006, 5:29 pm

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by jackspratt » June 7, 2021, 5:57 pm

Udon Map wrote:
June 7, 2021, 5:37 pm
Not interested in facts? Or, put slightly differently, when asked for an even somewhat fact-based basis for your opinion, you opt out.
Nope, just not interested in re-litigating the entire disputed history of who arrived where, and when.

If I was, I could have made that the subject of my OP.

User avatar
AlexO
udonmap.com
Posts: 2505
Joined: June 8, 2015, 11:45 am
Location: Nong Lat Udon

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by AlexO » June 7, 2021, 6:10 pm

jackspratt wrote:
June 7, 2021, 5:43 pm
AlexO wrote:
June 7, 2021, 2:38 pm

Just be careful that you are not catching the Pratt Syndrome where everything he posts is factual, not just an opinion and has to be believed unless you are an uneducated moron.
Amusing to see he has dropped out of his racist thread when he cannot better UM in arguments'
I'll duck back in when there is some more discussion on the subject of the OP eg when you acknowledge the content of post #6 on page 1.

Oh, and also if you ever get around to educating yourself as to the meanings of "racist" and "anti-Semitism". 👍
So you don't know, unsurprising.
[Redacted by Moderator]

User avatar
Udon Map
Admin
Posts: 2832
Joined: July 31, 2013, 7:57 pm

Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?

Post by Udon Map » June 7, 2021, 6:50 pm

jackspratt wrote:
June 7, 2021, 5:57 pm
Udon Map wrote:
June 7, 2021, 5:37 pm
Not interested in facts? Or, put slightly differently, when asked for an even somewhat fact-based basis for your opinion, you opt out.
Nope, just not interested in re-litigating the entire disputed history of who arrived where, and when.
I wasn't asking you to relitigate the entire history. I was asking how you came to your opinion.

Post Reply

Return to “World News”