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Khun Paul
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Khun Paul » February 4, 2023, 9:47 am

tamada wrote:
February 4, 2023, 8:45 am
Khun Paul wrote:
February 4, 2023, 7:29 am
On a brighter note the upside of this limited military incursion by Russia into Ukraine does enable Military hardware manufacturers assess the capabilities of their planned upgrades on many levels without resorting o actually putting THEIR soldiers lives in jeopardy or for that matter the current holdings of the hardware to be diminished by the country they made it for.
Oe judders to think what would happen if there were NO incidents involving people fighting how the arms manufacturers would survive considering that apart from Space Exploration and how that has revolutionised Technology in homes. we forget that many advances in the world has come about due to a war somewhere.
You are kidding. The benefits of war? Seriously?
Yep lts take Penicillin for example, developed during the Crimea war , used by Florence Nightingale ( Mother of Nursing ) its use saved thousand of lives.
The often forced because of a great need has over the years changed the lives of millions as the normal costs etc are discounted as a Nations need and improvement, research, and development can go on unrestricted with the THEN Customer base ( military ) saving lives hence the publics as well.



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tamada
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Re: Ukraine

Post by tamada » February 4, 2023, 9:58 am

Khun Paul wrote:
February 4, 2023, 9:47 am
tamada wrote:
February 4, 2023, 8:45 am
Khun Paul wrote:
February 4, 2023, 7:29 am
On a brighter note the upside of this limited military incursion by Russia into Ukraine does enable Military hardware manufacturers assess the capabilities of their planned upgrades on many levels without resorting o actually putting THEIR soldiers lives in jeopardy or for that matter the current holdings of the hardware to be diminished by the country they made it for.
Oe judders to think what would happen if there were NO incidents involving people fighting how the arms manufacturers would survive considering that apart from Space Exploration and how that has revolutionised Technology in homes. we forget that many advances in the world has come about due to a war somewhere.
You are kidding. The benefits of war? Seriously?
Yep lts take Penicillin for example, developed during the Crimea war , used by Florence Nightingale ( Mother of Nursing ) its use saved thousand of lives.
The often forced because of a great need has over the years changed the lives of millions as the normal costs etc are discounted as a Nations need and improvement, research, and development can go on unrestricted with the THEN Customer base ( military ) saving lives hence the publics as well.
No. No it wasn't and no she didn't.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Khun Paul » February 4, 2023, 11:11 am

Maybe my history on that is sketchy , however I am showing that if it was NOT for Conflict many of the new techologies would not even exist , I am NOT saying WAR is good, BUT IT DOES bring with all its pain and hurt and death many advances that we currently enjoy, so get your head out of the proverbial and see the light Tam

Florence Nightingale was alive when a Frenchman first discovered what is now known to be Penicillin some 30 years after the Crimea, however some 2 decades later Fleming made it known to the world

Florence standardised HEALTH CARE in hospitals during the Crimea War which saved approx 2/3rds of sick soldiers after which she fought the British Government and the Military to ensure health care as WE know it today, a change brought on by a WAR ....TAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Ukraine

Post by tamada » February 4, 2023, 12:38 pm

Khun Paul wrote:
February 4, 2023, 11:11 am
Maybe my history on that is sketchy , however I am showing that if it was NOT for Conflict many of the new techologies would not even exist , I am NOT saying WAR is good, BUT IT DOES bring with all its pain and hurt and death many advances that we currently enjoy, so get your head out of the proverbial and see the light Tam

Florence Nightingale was alive when a Frenchman first discovered what is now known to be Penicillin some 30 years after the Crimea, however some 2 decades later Fleming made it known to the world

Florence standardised HEALTH CARE in hospitals during the Crimea War which saved approx 2/3rds of sick soldiers after which she fought the British Government and the Military to ensure health care as WE know it today, a change brought on by a WAR ....TAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh dear. You were doing so well with your retraction and backpedal until the "get your head out of the proverbial" bit.

Apparently my great grandfather was alive at the same time John Logie Baird invented the telly. That doesn't in any way make him linked to the invention like your tenuous "Florence Nightingale was alive when a Frenchman first discovered" nonsense.

Anesthetics, vaccines and x-rays were all invented or developed outside of any dire wartime need.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Khun Paul » February 4, 2023, 2:00 pm

Not to worry Tamada, your pitiful response is what I expected from you, I did not mention specifically any industrial or tecnological just asa a generalisation which you yourself took upon yourself to mention ONE piece of technology which was invented outside`wartime, however the basis for l;ictures or notations on a screen was invented by those who invented RADAR ....................during the WAR !!

However with a anti almost anything person like yourself to admit mankind has benefitied form Military Conflict would be unthinkable or even untenable as you will stick to your flawed thinking util T S F O A T C C S Home !!

I at least admit my error, you seem unable to admit your erroneous thinking, quite understandable in fact but not to worry I forgive you , thousands will not . Must look after the old and infirm,

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Re: Ukraine

Post by tamada » February 4, 2023, 3:42 pm

Khun Paul wrote:
February 4, 2023, 2:00 pm
Not to worry Tamada, your pitiful response is what I expected from you, I did not mention specifically any industrial or tecnological just asa a generalisation which you yourself took upon yourself to mention ONE piece of technology which was invented outside`wartime, however the basis for l;ictures or notations on a screen was invented by those who invented RADAR ....................during the WAR !!

However with a anti almost anything person like yourself to admit mankind has benefitied form Military Conflict would be unthinkable or even untenable as you will stick to your flawed thinking util T S F O A T C C S Home !!

I at least admit my error, you seem unable to admit your erroneous thinking, quite understandable in fact but not to worry I forgive you , thousands will not . Must look after the old and infirm,
And such a woefully wrong generalization it was too. Goes with being wrong about pretty much everything else today on this thread. BTW, radar was not invented "during the WAR !!" either.

At least you're consistent.

Now stop it. The crowd's laughing.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Doodoo » February 4, 2023, 4:34 pm

"Now stop it. The crowd's laughing."

Best keep your opinion to oneself

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Khun Paul » February 4, 2023, 5:30 pm

May not have initially started in the WAR BUT........next put down by a complete womble !!
The history of radar (where radar stands for radio detection and ranging) started with experiments by Heinrich Hertz in the late 19th century that showed that radio waves were reflected by metallic objects. This possibility was suggested in James Clerk Maxwell's seminal work on electromagnetism. However, it was not until the early 20th century that systems able to use these principles were becoming widely available, and it was German inventor Christian Hülsmeyer who first used them to build a simple ship detection device intended to help avoid collisions in fog (Reichspatent Nr. 165546). True radar, such as the British Chain Home early warning system provided directional information to objects over short ranges, were developed over the next two decades.

The development of systems able to produce short pulses of radio energy was the key advance that allowed modern radar systems to come into existence. By timing the pulses on an oscilloscope, the range could be determined and the direction of the antenna revealed the angular location of the targets. The two, combined, produced a "fix", locating the target relative to the antenna. In the 1934–1939 period, eight nations developed independently, and in great secrecy, systems of this type: the United Kingdom, Germany, the United States, the USSR, Japan, the Netherlands, France, and Italy. In addition, Britain shared their information with the United States and four Commonwealth countries: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and South Africa, and these countries also developed their own radar systems. During the war, Hungary was added to this list.[1] The term RADAR was coined in 1939 by the United States Signal Corps as it worked on these systems for the Navy.[2]

Progress during the war was rapid and of great importance, probably one of the decisive factors for the victory of the Allies. A key development was the magnetron in the UK,[3] which allowed the creation of relatively small systems with sub-meter resolution. By the end of hostilities, Britain, Germany, the United States, the USSR, and Japan had a wide variety of land- and sea-based radars as well as small airborne systems. After the war, radar use was widened to numerous fields including: civil aviation, marine navigation, radar guns for police, meteorology and even medicine. Key developments in the post-war period include the travelling wave tube as a way to produce large quantities of coherent microwaves, the development of signal delay systems that led to phased array radars, and ever-increasing frequencies that allow higher resolutions. Increases in signal processing capability due to the introduction of solid state computers has also had a large impact on radar use.

Now historically my inital comment was wrong, however this aticle proves a popint it WAS the WAR that accelerated its wide reanging iception proving the point YET again that Militarty Conflict hasten improvement and enhancement of technology , that fact is ignored by the member called Tamada as he likes to prove people wrong, while offering nothing to back up his comments, proving that all he is , is a troll posting for effect rather than infoming others .

You will not mind TAMADA if i check all the info you post and continually call you out for making mistakes as it seems to be a game with you, thinking your always right. I will look forward to every post you make and check it for accuracy and call you out !!!!

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Re: Ukraine

Post by tamada » February 4, 2023, 6:03 pm

You stated clearly "invented by those who invented RADAR ....................during the WAR !!" which isn't the same as "WAR that accelerated its wide reanging iception" (whatever that means)

You're the one wearing a hole in your wiki, fact checking your own erroneous claims. If anything I'm anti-idiot but you just carry on. I guess someone's got to do it.

Back on topic: apparently there's "rocket powered bombs" in the latest drip feed of US weaponry. What are they? Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb (GLSDB), which will double Ukraine’s strike range and allow Ukraine’s military to strike deep behind the frontlines of the war.

Sorry, no F sip-hohk.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by jackspratt » February 4, 2023, 8:51 pm

Khun Paul wrote:
February 4, 2023, 5:30 pm
....You will not mind TAMADA if i check all the info you post and continually call you out for making mistakes as it seems to be a game with you, thinking your always right. I will look forward to every post you make and check it for accuracy and call you out !!!!
I'm loving this new soft and alert side of you, KP.

A huge contrast to the dozens of times you have posted previously that you don't care - often emphasised with a "jot". :D

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Earnest » February 4, 2023, 9:58 pm

KP is right though, isn't he? Technological advances are accelerated by warfare, whether it's beneficial could depend what side you're on.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by papafarang » February 5, 2023, 12:32 am

Earnest wrote:
February 4, 2023, 9:58 pm
KP is right though, isn't he? Technological advances are accelerated by warfare, whether it's beneficial could depend what side you're on.
drones are a prime example.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by tamada » February 5, 2023, 2:58 am

papafarang wrote:
February 5, 2023, 12:32 am
Earnest wrote:
February 4, 2023, 9:58 pm
KP is right though, isn't he? Technological advances are accelerated by warfare, whether it's beneficial could depend what side you're on.
drones are a prime example.
Correct inasmuch as they were initially developed by and for the military. However, the non wartime commercial development of the drone industry is significant. It's a reason one of my buddies was able to retire only twelve years after starting his hugely successful aerial surveying business in the UAE without earning any military contracts.

GPS is easily overlooked as the probably the single most significant military technology that has been desensitized and made available for commercial and private use.

It appears that the Chinese aren't having much luck with their peace time weather balloons though.
Last edited by tamada on February 5, 2023, 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Khun Paul » February 5, 2023, 6:58 am

jackspratt wrote:
February 4, 2023, 8:51 pm
Khun Paul wrote:
February 4, 2023, 5:30 pm
....You will not mind TAMADA if i check all the info you post and continually call you out for making mistakes as it seems to be a game with you, thinking your always right. I will look forward to every post you make and check it for accuracy and call you out !!!!
I'm loving this new soft and alert side of you, KP.

A huge contrast to the dozens of times you have posted previously that you don't care - often emphasised with a "jot". :D
Don't be your on the list as well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Ukraine

Post by jackspratt » February 5, 2023, 7:46 pm

As you can imagine, I await your incisive fact checking and withering take-downs with some trepidation, KP. :shock:

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Mosquito » February 5, 2023, 8:41 pm

Back on Topic Post.

tamada. "Your own timeline evidences Germany sitting on their hands. First through a reluctance to drop Russian gas last summer, limiting materiel to body armor and more recently with this tank "permission" game. Germany is a significant member of NATO."

Pls go back to my timeline for reference, specifically June 2022 and talk about sending Leopard 2's to Ukraine by NATO members (along with the reason for me being disappointed in Ukraine's leadership}.

What aid Germany send to Ukraine in mid 2022?? Not massive, but definitely not "Germany sitting on their hands."
https://www.dw.com/en/first-heavy-weapo ... %20Ukraine.

Oh, on F-16 Command and Control.....US and Ukraine will have more than enough time to work out the details/requirements, as don't see US sending F-16's until early mid-2024 (if at all).

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Earnest » February 5, 2023, 9:04 pm

What's F-16 command and control?
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Mosquito » February 5, 2023, 9:20 pm

Earnest wrote:
February 5, 2023, 9:04 pm
What's F-16 command and control?
Basic battlefield requirement to make sure you don't have a blue on blue engagement, along with operational readiness and effective tactical use of assets.

Logical requirement (one of many} before providing Ukraine with F-16 fighters.

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Re: Ukraine

Post by tamada » February 5, 2023, 9:29 pm

I looked at the YouTube and it references 'talk' of sending Leopard II's last summer. As far as I know, this wasn't heavily covered in mainstream media but I will let someone fact check that. However, I did look at a couple of the links provided in that video and the one from politico.com on 5 June says (my emphasis):

"The Leopard tanks were made in Germany and then sold to Spain, which means Berlin would need to approve re-export before they can be delivered to Ukraine.

The German Economy Ministry, which is in charge of granting export authorizations, had no comment, and referred questions to the chancellery, which had no immediate comment."


While overtdefense.com on 8 June says:

"German Chancellor Olaf Scholz says that the German government has yet to receive a formal request from Spain to approve the export of surplus Leopard 2A4 main battle tanks and Aspide short-range surface to air missiles to Ukraine. During a working visit to Vilnius, Scholz told reporters in the Lithuanian capital on Tuesday that any request would be carefully assessed. Germany’s Conservative opposition parties have already called on Scholz to authorize the transfer."

German Economic Ministry had "no comment" and referred reporters to Scholz's office (the chancellery) on 5 June while Scholz's comment suggests that on 8 June, his office wasn't aware of any requests.This despite the opposition parties asking him to pull the finger out on these issues. So Germany and Scholz has been sitting on it's hands on this Leopard thing since at least last summer.

BTW, the YouTuber guy certainly knows his leopard's!

Apart from listing some impressive hardware, the DW article states that Germany has been criticized by Ukraine and the NATO allies of being slow to respond. Mainstream media has been also pretty consistent with that beat down. Once again, someone can fact check that as well.

Germany has good reason to be reluctant to be seen as an aggressor in Europe again. There was a good article in The Economist lately that explained all the reasons but it still called out Scholz for his overall lack of commitment.

As for F-16's, allow me to agree to disagree. If they do send aircraft with trained pilots and the whole support shebang in the summer next year, someone really isn't trying hard enough to end the war this year. And I am not talking about Ukraine's military command or Vladimir Putin either.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Earnest » February 5, 2023, 9:30 pm

Do you mean Ukrainians shooting down Ukrainian F-16s?

How would they ensure such a blue on blue engagement wouldn't happen?

How do they stop it happening at the moment because they fly the same 'planes as the Russians don't they?
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