US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

This section is for general money matters, finance and investing.
User avatar
WBU ALUM
udonmap.com
Posts: 3240
Joined: July 29, 2008, 11:40 pm
Location: When I'm logged in, UdonMap

US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by WBU ALUM » June 20, 2010, 9:09 pm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... #printMode
The U.S. government – under a new law incorporated in the Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act signed by President Barack Obama on 18 March 2010 – is demanding that international financial institutions reveal which of their clients are U.S. citizens with accounts of more than $50,000. Foreign banks are, in effect, being asked to act as the international enforcement arms of the Internal Revenue Service. Those banks that don't comply will be subject to a 30% withholding tax on all payments made to them in the U.S. Many banks and wealth managers have decided it is far easier to politely show their U.S. clients the door.


10,000 miles is not enough to escape tyranny.



User avatar
arjay
udonmap.com
Posts: 8349
Joined: October 2, 2005, 12:19 pm
Location: Gone to get a life, "troll free"

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by arjay » June 20, 2010, 9:20 pm

As I understand it, it's the Swiss bank UBS that has capitulated (agreed) to give details to US tax authorities, contrary to its previous policy of keeping investors details secret.

I don't think there's been any moves on Thai banks yet!! ;) Though come to think of it foreigners in Thailand get negligible interest anyway. ;)

WBU, there will of course be those who argue that declaring appropriate income and paying taxes due is the legal responsibility of US citizens, wherever that income arises.

User avatar
WBU ALUM
udonmap.com
Posts: 3240
Joined: July 29, 2008, 11:40 pm
Location: When I'm logged in, UdonMap

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by WBU ALUM » June 20, 2010, 10:50 pm

Paying taxes is not my concern. I pay all taxes due.

If Thai banks don't want to deal with the hassle of doing Obama's police work and decide to refuse US customers (as some banks in other parts of the world have done), then US expats have no bank accounts in order to comply with Thai visa requirements.

No visa, no stay. Renounce citizenship, no passport. No passport, no visa. No recourse for US expats.

User avatar
Farang1
udonmap.com
Posts: 547
Joined: September 7, 2006, 8:48 pm
Location: Just around the corner...
Contact:

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by Farang1 » June 21, 2010, 12:46 am

arjay wrote:WBU, there will of course be those who argue that declaring appropriate income and paying taxes due is the legal responsibility of US citizens, wherever that income arises.
If you are living and working in Thailand, do you pay Thai taxes?
If you are living in Thailand on a visa and have a bank account that pays interest, do you pay Thai taxes?

What little bit I have read of tax treaties the US has with other countries, if you have income in another country whether it be earned or interest paid on an account and pay income taxes to that country, you are not liable for US taxes.

I could be wrong as I haven't been in the position to have foreign income.

User avatar
WBU ALUM
udonmap.com
Posts: 3240
Joined: July 29, 2008, 11:40 pm
Location: When I'm logged in, UdonMap

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by WBU ALUM » June 21, 2010, 4:18 am

The concern regarding this new law isn't with paying taxes.

User avatar
Farang1
udonmap.com
Posts: 547
Joined: September 7, 2006, 8:48 pm
Location: Just around the corner...
Contact:

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by Farang1 » June 21, 2010, 5:38 am

WBU ALUM wrote:The concern regarding this new law isn't with paying taxes.
Yeah, I know. It's about the long talons of the IRS and their ability to take without due process.

The US is saying to the foreign banks that, if tne banks don't tell IRS who their customers are, the IRS will garnish 30% from the payments that are due the banks. And, as we all know, with the IRS, we are guilty until proven innocent.

jimboLV
udonmap.com
Posts: 863
Joined: May 3, 2009, 12:31 pm
Location: Amnat Charoen

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by jimboLV » June 21, 2010, 8:03 am

This onslaught against American expats has been going on for some time. American Citizens Abroad is a lobbying group that has been fighting these regulations. For example they were instrumental in getting expats exempted from the compulsory insurance scheme in the recent Healthcare Bill. Here's part of what they had to say about the banking situation for expats:
First, the proposed reinforced Qualified Intermediary (QI) regulations are so draconian that banks
overseas are getting rid of American clients rather than face the administrative hassle and the perceived
legal risks of complying.

Second, the Patriot Act, in 2001, tightened the Know-Your-Customer (KYC) regulations. Many US
banks have decided that this KYC clause cannot be fulfilled if the customer lives overseas. Consequently,
these banks are closing accounts of US citizens on the sole ground of their overseas addresses.

Third, the new more inclusive Treasury FBAR filing requirements for foreign bank accounts are
excessive and carry unduly harsh penalties for not filing or incorrect filing, even when this is done
unknowingly.


http://www.aca.ch/joomla/index.php?opti ... Itemid=107

They are currently soliciting input from expats to back them up at proposed congressional hearings on overseas banking services before the House Committee on Financial Services. You can submit comments here:

http://www.aca.ch/persexp.php

I know this issue affects only Americans, but others might take note, as I am sure your governments are watching this carefully and may get ideas.

User avatar
Aardvark
udonmap.com
Posts: 5837
Joined: March 5, 2007, 9:08 am
Location: Perth Australia and Udon

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by Aardvark » June 21, 2010, 9:58 am

For those Australian's interested you can read it all here........http://www.ato.gov.au/taxprofessionals/ ... &page=3&H3 It seems we have to pay Tax in all countries we work and then again in Oz :mad:

User avatar
WBU ALUM
udonmap.com
Posts: 3240
Joined: July 29, 2008, 11:40 pm
Location: When I'm logged in, UdonMap

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by WBU ALUM » June 21, 2010, 10:11 am

Farang1 wrote:
WBU ALUM wrote:The concern regarding this new law isn't with paying taxes.
Yeah, I know. It's about the long talons of the IRS and their ability to take without due process.

The US is saying to the foreign banks that, if tne banks don't tell IRS who their customers are, the IRS will garnish 30% from the payments that are due the banks. And, as we all know, with the IRS, we are guilty until proven innocent.
Uh, no, it's not really about that either, although all of that is true.

If banks in Thailand don't want to comply with individual Obama's new law, the Thai banks will turn away US expats as customers. Without a bank account, it could be very difficult for many US expats to get a retirement visa.

User avatar
jackspratt
udonmap.com
Posts: 16079
Joined: July 2, 2006, 5:29 pm

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by jackspratt » June 21, 2010, 10:20 am

WBU are you not the person on this forum who has on numerous occasions informed us that the President does not have the power to pass laws - that being the role of the Congress?

That being the case, why are you personalising this as "Obama's law"? :-k

User avatar
WBU ALUM
udonmap.com
Posts: 3240
Joined: July 29, 2008, 11:40 pm
Location: When I'm logged in, UdonMap

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by WBU ALUM » June 21, 2010, 11:06 am

jackspratt wrote:WBU are you not the person on this forum who has on numerous occasions informed us that the President does not have the power to pass laws - that being the role of the Congress?

That being the case, why are you personalising this as "Obama's law"? :-k
When Obama makes it personal, it becomes personal.

There are laws that are passed by Congress at their own behest, and there are laws passed by Congress at the behest of the president -- health care, immigration reform (still trying), financial reform (almost done), cap and trade (still trying), etc.

This new law going after expats in foreign countries, was passed at the urging of Obama. It was another of his demonizing divisive actions of class warfare to make the poor feel like he was going after those evil rich people who live in foreign countries and hide their money. That is why I call it Obama's law. Just like many if not all call the health care law 'ObamaCare'.

cookie
udonmap.com
Posts: 2235
Joined: September 29, 2006, 8:52 pm

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by cookie » June 21, 2010, 11:21 am

WBU ALUM wrote:
jackspratt wrote:WBU are you not the person on this forum who has on numerous occasions informed us that the President does not have the power to pass laws - that being the role of the Congress?

That being the case, why are you personalising this as "Obama's law"? :-k
When Obama makes it personal, it becomes personal.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I have to remember this explanation for the future :D :D :D :D :D

"it's because he was getting personal" :D :D :D :D

User avatar
jackspratt
udonmap.com
Posts: 16079
Joined: July 2, 2006, 5:29 pm

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by jackspratt » June 21, 2010, 11:53 am

WBU your analysis is interesting.

Obama is barely mentioned in the article you link to the Wall Street Journal. I also struggled to find further references via a google search. :-k

As its title (Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act) suggests, the Act seems to be very much about a job creation scheme (in the wake of the financial crisis), and only a very minor part relating to overseas banks having to report their US clients.

The bill was also passed in a bipartisan fashion (68 - 29) in the Senate, so perhaps those 68 Senators (including the Republicans) should have to share some of the opprobrium you are heaping on Obama. After all, he can't pass legislation.

Perhaps you could provide some relevant, and credible links, showing how Obama was central to the creation and passing of the overseas banks section of this jobs' creation legislation.

User avatar
parrot
udonmap.com
Posts: 10925
Joined: March 19, 2006, 8:32 pm

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by parrot » June 21, 2010, 1:23 pm

What's the big deal? A bunch of wealthy people were sticking their money in Swiss bank accounts to avoid paying taxes back in the US. The US cracks down. Bravo! Or would you rather those wealthy, tax-avoiding cheats, continue to let you pay more than your share?

Renounce your US citizenship? Ha! And then you'll be a citizen of where? Thailand? Check some of the online forums and see how difficult (nearly impossible) it is to obtain Thai citizenship! Hope you can sing the Thai national anthem in Thai!

All tax-paying American citizens have long been required to fill out Treasury Department Form 90-22.1 every year if they own, or have an interest in, any foreign bank accounts.

Chill out, guys. After all, everyone here does have a plan B in their hip pocket...................right?

User avatar
WBU ALUM
udonmap.com
Posts: 3240
Joined: July 29, 2008, 11:40 pm
Location: When I'm logged in, UdonMap

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by WBU ALUM » June 21, 2010, 3:47 pm

cookie wrote:
WBU ALUM wrote:
jackspratt wrote:WBU are you not the person on this forum who has on numerous occasions informed us that the President does not have the power to pass laws - that being the role of the Congress?

That being the case, why are you personalising this as "Obama's law"? :-k
When Obama makes it personal, it becomes personal.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I have to remember this explanation for the future :D :D :D :D :D

"it's because he was getting personal" :D :D :D :D
I know you will conveniently forget, cookie, because it doesn't fit with your 'anti' agenda, but there was more to that explanation.

cookie
udonmap.com
Posts: 2235
Joined: September 29, 2006, 8:52 pm

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by cookie » June 21, 2010, 4:04 pm

WBU ALUM wrote:
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I have to remember this explanation for the future :D :D :D :D :D

"it's because he was getting personal" :D :D :D :D
I know you will conveniently forget, cookie, because it doesn't fit with your 'anti' agenda, but there was more to that explanation.[/quote]

my dearest WBU,
at the moment,
the one with the incredible "ANTI-OBAMA" agenda seems to be you,
so next time think twice before you write down more personal attacks :D :D

User avatar
WBU ALUM
udonmap.com
Posts: 3240
Joined: July 29, 2008, 11:40 pm
Location: When I'm logged in, UdonMap

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by WBU ALUM » June 21, 2010, 4:05 pm

jackspratt wrote:WBU your analysis is interesting.

Obama is barely mentioned in the article you link to the Wall Street Journal. I also struggled to find further references via a google search. :-k

As its title (Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act) suggests, the Act seems to be very much about a job creation scheme (in the wake of the financial crisis), and only a very minor part relating to overseas banks having to report their US clients.

The bill was also passed in a bipartisan fashion (68 - 29) in the Senate, so perhaps those 68 Senators (including the Republicans) should have to share some of the opprobrium you are heaping on Obama. After all, he can't pass legislation.

Perhaps you could provide some relevant, and credible links, showing how Obama was central to the creation and passing of the overseas banks section of this jobs' creation legislation.
Your obfuscation never ceases to amaze me.

You want to play tit for tat games with nomenclature, when the issue is the law.

First, you are correct, this bill was promoted as a jobs bill and one that would help small businesses. What politician is going to vote against that in an economic recession?

Second, I am equally angry with any politician, not just Republicans, who voted for this without knowing everything that was in it.

Third, Obama is not central to creating and passing anything ABOVE ground. His speeches prior to the passage of this bill demonized overseas investors. If I can find a link to any of those speeches, I will gladly post them.

How one firm may use Obama jobs bill

I was able to find the above link and title on the first page of my search. Get that browser fixed, jack.

User avatar
jackspratt
udonmap.com
Posts: 16079
Joined: July 2, 2006, 5:29 pm

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by jackspratt » June 21, 2010, 5:00 pm

Once again, your anti-Obama slip is showing - cookie expressed that quite eloquently.

I look forward to the "demonizing" speeches.

User avatar
WBU ALUM
udonmap.com
Posts: 3240
Joined: July 29, 2008, 11:40 pm
Location: When I'm logged in, UdonMap

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by WBU ALUM » June 21, 2010, 5:39 pm

cookie wrote:
WBU ALUM wrote:the one with the incredible "ANTI-OBAMA" agenda seems to be you
I do not hide the fact that I am against any policy or actions by Obama that violate the US Constitution, are unethical, take away freedom and liberty of the individual or violate the principles of free enterprise. I will object to any such issue.

I would not expect anyone to sit silently by while their principles and government are under attack.

User avatar
jingjai
udonmap.com
Posts: 2369
Joined: November 1, 2005, 4:28 pm
Location: Udon Thani,Thailand

Re: US Expats: You're in Obama's gun sights

Post by jingjai » June 21, 2010, 6:13 pm

Back to the issue of whether or not any of us "low rent" American ex-pats here in Udon have anything to worry about:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... #printMode
The U.S. government – under a new law incorporated in the Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act signed by President Barack Obama on 18 March 2010 – is demanding that international financial institutions reveal which of their clients are U.S. citizens with accounts of more than $50,000. Foreign banks are, in effect, being asked to act as the international enforcement arms of the Internal Revenue Service. Those banks that don't comply will be subject to a 30% withholding tax on all payments made to them in the U.S. Many banks and wealth managers have decided it is far easier to politely show their U.S. clients the door.
The way I interpret that, and I may be wrong, if you transfer more than $50k USD to a foreign banks office in the U.S., IE: Bangkok Bank's N.Y. office, to be then transferred to your account here in Thailand. Perhaps you will be subject to a 30% withholding tax??? Or, if you keep $50+k USD in a foreign bank account?
I'm not worried...yet 8-[ .

Post Reply

Return to “Money, Finance & Investing”