Anybody made an usufruct in Udon recently ??

Post by **boes** » November 24, 2014, 11:25 pm

There were some scary news that the land department didn't do usufructs as per January -14

Post by **boes** » November 24, 2014, 11:29 pm

I am referring to this post earlier on the map....:

The Land Department in Udon Thani and usufructs
« on: May 21, 2013, 01:22:38 PM »
The land department in Udon Thani is refusing to register usufruct to foreigners.
They also told us on the phone that they are refusing leases and superficies. That is a decision of the head officer of the land department.
That is scary for foreigners....

They only contract he agrees is rights of habitation. I never seen that anywhere else and that's the only place i know.
And we did register usufructs in the past in Udon Thani. YEsterday, someone called us said he had problems and wanted us to register it for him. We double checked, verified, and the land department does not want to do it.

Few years ago, the head officer of ALL land department gave some discretion to each head officer of the land department to refuse or accept agreements. The Civil Code or the law of Thailand should be the same everywhere...http://isaan.com/forum/index.php/topic, ... ml#msg5491

Post by **boes** » November 25, 2014, 12:19 pm

I might have found the answer myself: Correct or ? Anybody in here who has registered usufruct recently ?

By; written in June 2014
Sebastian H. Brousseau, LLB, B.Sc.
Attorney-at-Law (Quebec, Canada)
Managing Director of Isaan Lawyers.

Many years ago, I wrote that article about usufruct agreement in Thailand:

http://www.isaanlawyers.com/Usufruct%20 ... ailand.pdf

The situation has changed a lot. In 2007-2009, it was quite difficult to register a usufruct. Most land department didn’t know how to do it and had to look in their books. Fortunately, it became easier to register usufruct contracts in Thailand.

However, there are always problems. There are some that I have seen in the past:

– The land department of Kalasin refused to register a usufruct in between non-married people

– A land department near Surin refused to register a usufruct for lifetime. They only allowed 30 years.

– Another land department near Khon Kaen refused a usufruct on more than 1 Rai.

Obviously, we did register usufruct on more than 1 Rai, on people non-married and also for lifetime.

The land department of Udon Thani is also making problems. After a period where all usufruct were refused, they now accept them. But you need to wait a period of 30 days between the transfer (sale of a property for example) and the registration of the usufruct. This is also the case of Khon Kaen now.

Post by **Barney** » June 16, 2015, 9:22 pm

Was able to register a Usufruct for life today in the Udon Thani land office, had to present the dual language contract which we had made up for witnessing by the boss 2nd row back. Few other hurdles and hoops to jump also some ampuer involvement but nothing to hard for me, but my missus did all the hard yards and talking. My name now on 3 chanote parcels of land to make the one property now with my name on all.
Now for the yellow book.

Post by **Jello** » June 17, 2015, 5:01 am

Barney wrote:Was able to register a Usufruct for life today in the Udon Thani land office, had to present the dual language contract

Glad to see the Udon land office is doing these again. Does the office have a standard form/contract they want to see?
I found this example on-line:
http://www.samuiforsale.com/other-misce ... ple.html#1

Was yours similar to this? Does the translation need to have a certified translators stamp on it?

I'd be interested in hearing about how the process goes when you apply for your yellow book also.

Post by **Barney** » June 17, 2015, 7:55 am

Jello,

Very similar type wording to your example. The old "Same Same but different".

I got the ready made dual language usufruct form from the shop near Landmark Shopping Centre. Looking at landmark it is the shop about 3 down to the right. Is a translating service and language school. The front desk woman can advise and the boss signs and stamps ready for the land office. You naturally have to provide the info to fill in the gaps, name, parents name, passport etc.
There is a fee naturally for this service and usufruct. They will advise what you need and the cost.

Post by **Jello** » June 17, 2015, 8:45 am

Thanks Barney!

Post by **parrot** » June 17, 2015, 9:20 am

Barney wrote:Jello,

Very similar type wording to your example. The old "Same Same but different".
I got the ready made dual language usufruct form from the shop near Landmark Shopping Centre. Looking at landmark it is the shop about 3 down to the right. Is a translating service and language school. The front desk woman can advise and the boss signs and stamps ready for the land office. You naturally have to provide the info to fill in the gaps, name, parents name, passport etc.
There is a fee naturally for this service and usufruct. They will advise what you need and the cost.

That's Prachoom's. Been in business for 40 years. Not the cheapest, but probably the best for the best for things you value to be done right.

Post by **boes** » June 17, 2015, 2:00 pm

Thanks a lot Barney ! What was the cost ? You can write here or send a private message.....

Post by **samuel** » June 17, 2015, 4:08 pm

Barney wrote:I got the ready made dual language usufruct form from the shop near Landmark Shopping Centre. Looking at landmark it is the shop about 3 down to the right. Is a translating service and language school.

Must be this one: http://en.pwtranslations.com/
Thanks for the Information about usufruct.
Well done.
Congratulations.

Post by **waanjai** » June 17, 2015, 5:21 pm

Barney wrote:Was able to register a Usufruct for life today in the Udon Thani land office, had to present the dual language contract which we had made up for witnessing by the boss 2nd row back.....

So this dual language contract or memorandum is the new thing with the newer usufruct agreements at the Land Office. In earlier times you had your private contract produced in front of a public notary which was later on not shown at the Land Office. The action in the Land Office was simply a verbal application for public registration and the costs between spouses (and no commercial use of the land envisaged) there were 75 Baht.

Good to read that the problems have been solved.

Post by **Barney** » June 18, 2015, 1:08 pm

waanjai wrote:
Barney wrote:Was able to register a Usufruct for life today in the Udon Thani land office, had to present the dual language contract which we had made up for witnessing by the boss 2nd row back.....
So this dual language contract or memorandum is the new thing with the newer usufruct agreements at the Land Office. In earlier times you had your private contract produced in front of a public notary which was later on not shown at the Land Office. The action in the Land Office was simply a verbal application for public registration and the costs between spouses (and no commercial use of the land envisaged) there were 75 Baht.

Good to read that the problems have been solved.

The land office boss told us to get the dual language document so as he was happy that both parties read and fully understood the implications of the usufruct prior to signatures and his witness signature. The document certainly gives the usufruct holder many legal rights that the landholder in his words must understand.

Post by **speedy1** » June 19, 2015, 7:18 pm

Hi all

Can someone please confirm - can an Usufruct be registered in Udon Thani, if the individuals are not married?

Post by **sometimewoodworker** » August 31, 2015, 8:01 am

Not in Udon itself but in Udon province Non Sa-At, after some really unnecessary negotiations with the leader of the land office we have just had an usufruct registered

Post by **Barney** » August 31, 2015, 9:33 am

sometimewoodworker wrote:Not in Udon itself but in Udon province Non Sa-At, after some really unnecessary negotiations with the leader of the land office we have just had an usufruct registered

Usufruct can be done in UT. Read my post above. I am in Udon Thani, not married and only ever on a visa exempt 30 day.

Post by **sometimewoodworker** » September 1, 2015, 9:51 pm

Barney wrote:
sometimewoodworker wrote:Not in Udon itself but in Udon province Non Sa-At, after some really unnecessary negotiations with the leader of the land office we have just had an usufruct registered

Usufruct can be done in UT. Read my post above. I am in Udon Thani, not married and only ever on a visa exempt 30 day.

Udon Thani land office only deals with its own area. If you live in an area covered by a different land office, as we do, then it makes no difference what Udon Thani land office does, you CAN NOT apply in any other land office you MUST use your local office and its leader makes the rules.

Please read my posting again.

I am well aware that UD has no problem, they were amazed by the attitude of the Non Sa-At land office leader but had no influence over him.

FWIW we are in the area of the Udon Thani provence, Kumpawapi branch, Non Sa-At sub-branch, land office

Post by **Barney** » September 2, 2015, 9:46 am

sometimewoodworker wrote:
Barney wrote:
sometimewoodworker wrote:Not in Udon itself but in Udon province Non Sa-At, after some really unnecessary negotiations with the leader of the land office we have just had an usufruct registered

Usufruct can be done in UT. Read my post above. I am in Udon Thani, not married and only ever on a visa exempt 30 day.
Udon Thani land office only deals with its own area. If you live in an area covered by a different land office, as we do, then it makes no difference what Udon Thani land office does, you CAN NOT apply in any other land office you MUST use your local office and its leader makes the rules.

Please read my posting again. I am well aware that UD has no problem, they were amazed by the attitude of the Non Sa-At land office leader but had no influence over him.

FWIW we are in the area of the Udon Thani provence, Kumpawapi branch, Non Sa-At sub-branch, land office

No problems sometimewoodworker,

The original question was about UT with no specific area, I didn't realize you answered and are not in UT land office boundaries, my mistake. I should have attached my answer to the original question.
I hang back with wagging my finger at you.

Post by **wazza** » September 3, 2015, 4:55 am

Bottom line is , each Local Manager has discretion over issuing one and each application is judged or rejected on its merits.

4 years ago UD Land Office Manager made it very challenging, appears Barney has been able to get it over the line in recent times and well done.

Post by **FrazeeDK** » September 3, 2015, 8:32 am

so what constitutes "very unnecessary negotiations" with the land office director?? Lunch money? Tea money? first born son??

Post by **sometimewoodworker** » September 4, 2015, 11:43 am

FrazeeDK wrote:so what constitutes "very unnecessary negotiations" with the land office director?? Lunch money? Tea money? first born son??

No money, other than officially recited fees, he had said that if he gave the Usufruct he could be suspected of taking bribes, so as a matter of principle no money without a recipt. But almost the first born son

He had stated to SWMBO that he didn't want to do an Usufruct, though a comment by another member of staff was "why not? Perfectly normal agreement"

He wanted to do a right of habitation but as there was no house yet we couldn't.

His stated reasons included that he was afraid that I would start drilling for oil or gas and take resources from Thai people and that my wife would loose control over the land.

When we visited together after a lot of talk he said that he felt sorry for me so would do it, but wanted us to change to a right of habitation once the house was built, both of us said "ok ok ok" meaning "no way, no how, no chance" . He also said that as he didn't have time to read the document beforehand he could ask us to return to make changes, again both of us said "ok ok ok" meaning "no way, no how, no chance" we have the Usufruct registered that is all we are going to do.