Solar Power

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glalt
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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » November 18, 2019, 11:27 am

kopkei wrote:
November 18, 2019, 9:49 am
when i read all this over solar power , i still do not see the advantages by investing in such an expensive exploit that will give you a lot headache about repairs and defects and will not give you any profit compared to your normal electric bill?
please enlighten me on this one ?.... :-k
If you were on my portion of the electric grid, you would easily understand. It truly stinks. I didn't build my systems with any intent to save money. I built them to try to keep my sanity. At first UPS units were used but that was an expensive mistake. They worked for maybe an hour before the low battery warning. Large units are expensive and don't have nearly the life of my solar components. When our village goes dark, my power is still on. I don't regret any of the costs to build my systems.

I also have a small generator for many hour long blackouts. It eats a lot of benzine and is noisy. My solar will run the fridge and a freezer but only for a couple hours when the sun goes down.



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fhorst
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Re: Solar Power

Post by fhorst » November 24, 2019, 11:36 pm

For me....
We have no grid.
No alternative.
Closest connection option is 8 km from our home.

It would cost million to get the grid connection.

Some good news,
I fixed one of the GAIA inverter, it is having additional ventilator strapped to it in case of an other fan failure.

The new inverter will be 3* the Revo II, each 3.2kw, parallel.
Not the heavyweight 29kg 5kw.
After studying it appears that it is also high frequency inverter, it does have additional ferrite "clamps", but the rest is mostly standard 5kw Inverter.
Weight is from the external iron casing., Amongst other more normal.
Besides that it ain't that special, the 10kw solar is actually 2*5kw.
Sadly my panels can be 18 and 9 or 3 * 9.
18 * 325 = too high. (I've seen 5400 top)

Makes the choice easy. I need 3 MPPT connection.
Price wise the Revo II is even cheaper with 3 * 3.2kw!
I'll let you know how it works out.
If it can't be done, it never happened..

glalt
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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » November 25, 2019, 9:03 am

I'm always surprised that appliance manufacturers have not tapped into DC powered appliances, especially air conditioners. The newer inverters convert AC to DC anyways. Changing heavy power using devices to DC would eliminate a lot of problems and expense for solar systems.

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fhorst
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Re: Solar Power

Post by fhorst » November 26, 2019, 8:29 am

There are solar air-conditioning...
Sold sadly almost only as a set with solarpanels.

It would be strange to to the DC to AC to DC on special made for :-)

And while it does have less parts, they are a lot more expensive!
Even if you deduct the solar panel.
Even more strange, as they're supposed to work on low power, their SEER rating is not even close to the standard AC.

Car Air-conditioning system run DC direct.
Not the already built in (ok they also run DC) but the external units, like for truck, have really bad SEER.

Mine have 23.76 (no typo)
While 26 is available in some countries, not yet in Thailand. (6 months ago)

Always trade-off, I was lucky to get my 5 Daikin 9000 btu for a good price.

They use 540 watts on 9000BTU, turbo /boost is 850 watt but also 11.500 BTU!
If it can't be done, it never happened..

Marcosteffano
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Re: Solar Power

Post by Marcosteffano » November 26, 2019, 11:13 am

I get a lot of blackouts here in the village.just built one of these with a 80amp battery that I can double or triple up giving me 240amp.simple bit of kit that I charge up on the mains.ive tested the 80amp version and can run a fan,wifi and light for 8 hours without draining the battery right down.when the power is out I just roll it out and can plug in what I need.if I have the 240amp version can even watch the big tv for up to 6 hours too.no petrol and noise of a generator.no solar but could have if I wanted to add it.80amp cost me 3,200b,240amp cost 8,300b.
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glalt
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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » November 26, 2019, 12:26 pm

Air conditioners are a mystery to me. My bedroom has a 9.000 BTU Samsung that is more than ten years old. It still works great. Of course it is only used at night time. During hot days I turn it on for a half hour before we go to bed. The room is nicely cooled when we go to bed.

I bought a Panasonic 12,000 BTU inverter for my computer room. That room is exactly the same size as the bedroom with the additional benefit of being shaded on three sides. I was never satisfied with how it worked. After one year when the warranty expired, it gave a fault number and quit working. They wanted 7,000 baht plus a service call to replace the main circuit board. Since it never did work properly I told them to forget it. I replaced it with a 12,000 BTU LG. It apparently works properly but won't cool the room any faster or even as fast than the ancient 9,000 BTU Samsung.

I bought the inverter because of the soft start with no huge surge for my solar system. The solar will run it during the day but my system is too small to run it as much as needed. The bottom line is that I won't buy another inverter. I don't trust the ratings. I recently replaced the unit in my condo bedroom with a conventional 10,200 BTU LG and it works great. The original condo bedroom unit was 14,000 and it didn't cycle enough to remove the humidity. My wood cabinets would get mildewed.

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fhorst
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Re: Solar Power

Post by fhorst » November 29, 2019, 11:13 am

I do thrust inverter type, the main difference is that it is build to work 24/7.
Non inverter is more start - boost - stop system.

My 9000 BTU cools our bedroom and bathroom without any issues.
(Bathroom 3 * 3, bedroom 3* 5 meter)
I do say, it's running 24/7.

We have tick walls great insulation.
Ceiling have insulation.

With out solar panels, no problems :-)

Then again...
Daikin does have a name to keep up high.
If it can't be done, it never happened..

bluejets
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Re: Solar Power

Post by bluejets » November 30, 2019, 8:52 am

I looked at solar for our place near Khon Kaen but cost is prohibitive.
To be useful the system would need to be battery backup as in Glalt system.
Down in Aus, we get Gov. concession and the AU$12,000 22 panel 5Kw cost me a bit over $4,000. This plus I had to upgrade my switchboard but, being an electrical contractor, the cost was just materials. In general it generates approx. 28 to 32 units a day and use is 14.
As a plus there are also the buy back at around 10c/unit, not great as compared to the 25c/unit fee for incoming but something at least. And before anyone jumps on the wagon about meter running backwards, doesn't happen here since smart meters were introduced.
Battery systems can be as much as AU$20,000 on top again.
I am surprised that the Thai gov has not started a similar incentive system. There seems many solar farms popping up everywhere but perhaps they are foreign owned.
Glalt, wondered perhaps your inverter unit was crook right from the word go as they do work efficiently in my experience. Best point being the soft start especially in Thailand where the mains size is calculated on the pocket capacity rather than any maximum demand and voltage drop calculations.

glalt
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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » November 30, 2019, 12:38 pm

I'm certain that the Panasonic was never working properly since the day it was installed. Home Pro servicemen came a couple times and said it was fully charged and working properly. Just after the warranty expired, it died. Panasonic Thailand would never even bother to reply to my several complaints.

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kopkei
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Re: Solar Power

Post by kopkei » December 7, 2019, 10:18 am

this morning @ dohome...
IMG_20191207_090116[1] (Copy).jpg
IMG_20191207_090105[1] (Copy).jpg
as info... ;)

glalt
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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » December 7, 2019, 11:34 am

The question remains. Will you ever get a payback. I can't answer that but I can say that over all these these years, my systems have been remarkably trouble free. Do I save any money? I don't know because I don't pay any attention. My wife pays the electric bill and truthfully I don't even know how much it is. If the electric grid were reliable I would have never built my systems. As it is I have power when the neighborhood goes dark, which unfortunately is quite often.

I also have a condo in Jomtien. I can only remember one time when the power went off. We were notified that the power would be off from 9:00 AM until 4:00 PM for upgrades. Obviously the government takes care of the big users while ignoring the poorer provinces.

bluejets
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Re: Solar Power

Post by bluejets » December 7, 2019, 2:41 pm

With my system here as I previously said, it generates an average excess of around 8 to 17 units a day depending.......
I cannot justify installing a AU$20,000.00 battery system for this, never get anywhere near it.
Best I can do though is what I already do, and that is to use excess during the day to heat a 250 litre (60 gallon) storage hot water unit.
Control is simply a timer relay which cuts off during the hours of 4pm and 9am the following day.

Different story , to some degree, when the reason for the install is to avoid blackouts as is so common in Thailand.
Had a bit of a chuckle to myself the other day when some drongo on a news report here, obviously supporting his local green candidate, stated directly that Thailand had more reliable power than Aus.
Maybe he's from South Aus. :)

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fhorst
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Re: Solar Power

Post by fhorst » December 12, 2019, 8:25 pm

kopkei wrote:
December 7, 2019, 10:18 am
this morning @ dohome...
IMG_20191207_090116[1] (Copy).jpg
IMG_20191207_090105[1] (Copy).jpg
as info... ;)
Yes, I've seen it!
Solar panels price is getting OK.
But not nearly as cheap as https://www.9solarcell.com/

The 200ah Globatt didn't have price tag.
After one hour they find the price...
12.500
I paid 7.700 for mine :-)

The 330 watt solar panels = 3.300 THB.
If it can't be done, it never happened..

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fhorst
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Re: Solar Power

Post by fhorst » December 12, 2019, 8:41 pm

My battery array is excessive, huge, heavy.
But relative cheap.
16 X 200ah is about 125K THB.
(Au$ 6K) (€ 4k)
That's Include the transport of 1.000 kgs :-)

Having western energy lifestyle off grid....
It needs some investment.

With my installation the batteries should last 3 to 4 years.
(Reduced heat => always 18-20 degree,
No depleted battery, lowest 50%,
No over charge/ too fast charge,
De-sulphation pulse)

Time will tell :-)

When the next set of batteries is finished, I can (hope/wishful thinking) buy a second hand Tesla truck :-)
Use the batteries for power the house at night and a little li-ion powerwall for buffer..
If it can't be done, it never happened..

glalt
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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » December 13, 2019, 11:35 am

I really no longer pay any attention to solar panel efficiency. They are the most robust part of a solar system. I have double the recommended amount of panels because the sun does not shine every day. Even on cloudy rainy days they are able to keep my batteries fully charged. Am I wasting electricity? No doubt but I don't see that as a problem. I keep a close eye on my batteries and never discharge them below 50 percent. My other components have been very reliable and I do keep a spare charge controller and a spare inverter. I haven't needed them over all these years.

The weakest and most expensive part is the batteries. Maybe Lithium ion batteries are the best, BUT, I am not willing to pay the high price. That and my old components are not suitable because of voltage differences and charging rates. They are still way too expensive. I keep waiting for new low price battery technology but each time one is developed there are apparently problems because they are never are available in the market and the new technology just fades away. One complaint is that they are too big and heavy. That should not make any difference for your home. I don't care how big or heavy they are.

As things are now, golf cart batteries are the best option here in Thailand. They are made here so no huge transportation or import costs. They have thicker plates and using them in golf carts means they get seriously abused. They run them until they are about dead. I have four of them.

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fhorst
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Re: Solar Power

Post by fhorst » December 14, 2019, 12:37 pm

I have the same problems with power storage...
Lead acid battery are relatively cheap, I didn't look at the golf cart type, I can't tell.

Where did you buy yours?

One thing many people don't know is that it is "easy" to renew the batteries.

Quickest way is Epson salt, but also short time extension.

On YouTube (and many different sites) you can see how they make one good battery from 2 old.

The positive plate is the one that gives the problems.
But at start the plates are identical.

If you take apart a battery you can take all the negative plates from 2 batteries and make one new.

Looks fairly easy.

Many truck drivers reuse batteries this way.
Many know an address that "fixes" batteries.

Normal lifetime should be 3 to 5 years.
Recycle apparently is good for an additional 2 years.

I have 2 "dead" 100ah
First I'll try to fix with Pulse charger, if that doesn't work, I will take them apart and try the recycle ways.

Good exercise.
When my 16 * 200ah are "dead" I can make 8 "new".

Few days work to save + 60K THB :-)

Most easy is the pulse repair.
Most interesting is to recycle :-)

I'll know next year.

(Pulse repair takes about a month, if after one month still not good, it never will be with pulses)
If it can't be done, it never happened..

glalt
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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » December 15, 2019, 8:47 am


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fhorst
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Re: Solar Power

Post by fhorst » December 17, 2019, 10:07 am

@ glait:

Thank you for the link!

12v @ 225Ah = 2*5500= 11.000 THB.
At this moment I paid 7.700 for 200Ah

Time will tell if they are good enough or too cheap product :-)

How long to you have your gulf cart 6v 225Ah batteries?
(Months, years)
It's good to have real life results and expectations!!

They are more expensive, but if they last a lot longer....
Price is often relative...

Thank you
If it can't be done, it never happened..

glalt
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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » December 17, 2019, 12:13 pm

I don't remember when I bought the golf cart batteries, but it has been years ago.

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rick
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Re: Solar Power

Post by rick » December 17, 2019, 8:21 pm

Agree batteries are the weak link. I have an emergency power system running off of a globatt AGM battery, just a small one (45 Ah i think). 2 years , and now battery dead. I will admit maybe neglected regular recharging, but we didn't get out usual outages this year plus illness meant not charged for about 3 months. Used to leave my car in the uk for 9 months and battery would still work (after some hours on a charger).

Time for a new one ....

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