Mick's House Build
Mick's House Build
Today: the wastewater treatment. Insufficient solution for the greywater.
In a few weeks from now there will be the question: what to do with all the water from the rain gutters, what to do with all the rain on concrete or tiled areas or used water from the pool?
Why not doing it Thai-style: Have a joint solution for greywater and rainwater and a bigger solution, even if everything ends somewhere in a drain field and not in a pond or klong.
Consider that You most probably will have 9 types of "greywater" in a broad understanding:
1. from the hand-wash basins
2. from the showers (if no bathtub yet)
3. from the bathroom floors (typically 5 cm lower than the rest)
4. from the kitchen sinks (inside and outside). greywater from outside kitchen does often contain rain water too.
5. from the washing maschine (with excess washing powder)
6. from the rain gutters (e.g. as long as the roof tiles are not yet washed clean)
7. rain water from concrete or tiled areas (grabuean) around the house containing dirt
8. pool water that is being changed
9. excess water from the DOS sewage tank (flushing toilets, peeing)
In a few weeks from now there will be the question: what to do with all the water from the rain gutters, what to do with all the rain on concrete or tiled areas or used water from the pool?
Why not doing it Thai-style: Have a joint solution for greywater and rainwater and a bigger solution, even if everything ends somewhere in a drain field and not in a pond or klong.
Consider that You most probably will have 9 types of "greywater" in a broad understanding:
1. from the hand-wash basins
2. from the showers (if no bathtub yet)
3. from the bathroom floors (typically 5 cm lower than the rest)
4. from the kitchen sinks (inside and outside). greywater from outside kitchen does often contain rain water too.
5. from the washing maschine (with excess washing powder)
6. from the rain gutters (e.g. as long as the roof tiles are not yet washed clean)
7. rain water from concrete or tiled areas (grabuean) around the house containing dirt
8. pool water that is being changed
9. excess water from the DOS sewage tank (flushing toilets, peeing)
Mick's House Build
waanjai wrote: by waanjai » October 16, 2015, 4:27 pm
Today: the wastewater treatment. Insufficient solution for the greywater.
In a few weeks from now there will be the question: what to do with all the water from the rain gutters, what to do with all the rain on concrete or tiled areas or used water from the pool?
Why not doing it Thai-style: Have a joint solution for greywater and rainwater and a bigger solution, even if everything ends somewhere in a drain field and not in a pond or klong.
Consider that You most probably will have 9 types of "greywater" in a broad understanding:
1. from the hand-wash basins
2. from the showers (if no bathtub yet)
3. from the bathroom floors (typically 5 cm lower than the rest)
4. from the kitchen sinks (inside and outside). greywater from outside kitchen does often contain rain water too.
5. from the washing maschine (with excess washing powder)
6. from the rain gutters (e.g. as long as the roof tiles are not yet washed clean)
7. rain water from concrete or tiled areas (grabuean) around the house containing dirt
8. pool water that is being changed
9. excess water from the DOS sewage tank (flushing toil
Admit it, you were an accountant and know nothing about construction, it's obvious by your posts, I could go on but I won't, bring on google chrome! Silence is golden.
Mick's House Build
Hi Fellas,
Thanks for the advice and all makes perfect sense to me.
Waan, All waste will be running into the many rai of family farmland behind our house.
I lived on a farm in Australia for 10 years and I am sure all our waste water went through the septic including toilet paper.
No special detergents were used & never had a problem and I am sure that's how it's done all over.
So, what to do.
Run everything through septic tank or
just the sewage and run the grey water straight out.
The builders have filled the hole in, but only today, so no big deal to make the changes now, but i would like to make the decision ASAP.
Reply comments quickly if possible:)
Thanks
Mick
Thanks for the advice and all makes perfect sense to me.
Waan, All waste will be running into the many rai of family farmland behind our house.
I lived on a farm in Australia for 10 years and I am sure all our waste water went through the septic including toilet paper.
No special detergents were used & never had a problem and I am sure that's how it's done all over.
So, what to do.
Run everything through septic tank or
just the sewage and run the grey water straight out.
The builders have filled the hole in, but only today, so no big deal to make the changes now, but i would like to make the decision ASAP.
Reply comments quickly if possible:)
Thanks
Mick
Mick's House Build
just the sewage and run the grey water straight outmickojak wrote:So, what to do.
Run everything through septic tank or
just the sewage and run the grey water straight out.
That is, what we are doing. And so do very many.
Btw: what comes out of the septic tank is not "an overflow" but a "filtered out/separated" greywater. This we send out too immediately.
Mick's House Build
we are doing our septic now..plastic poo tank then runs out to concrete rings 3m deep, then thru holes in the rings to
the ground..
the rest is separate pipe to sludge box then to other concrete rings
the ground..
the rest is separate pipe to sludge box then to other concrete rings
Mick's House Build
Run your grey water straight out, I have two points at each end of the house for grey water, one bathroom and laundry, the other kitchen and bathroom, no problem at all. The only thing to go in your septic is sewage, no toilet paper! Looking at your set up its easy to modify, connect the pipes together that overflow from the concrete rings, that will become a balance pipe, I very much doubt you will need an overflow from the concrete rings, the sludge will remain in the plastic tank, clear water will run into the concrete rings, it will absorb into the ground easy, we have had no problem in eight years with that setup.
Mick's House Build
for me septic means only toilet , including the paper , 14years without any problem,what are you going to do with the used toilet paper? , garbage container in the bathroom :-& , all other wastewater direct or not , is up to you ,but also here i would comment 1 or more collector tanks (concrete rings or whatever ) so you can check there in case of problems.. we have such a collector right behind the kitchen and the bathrooms ,(accessible to empty, if needed) which also overflow outside...
Mick's House Build
All those that might still be advocating some variant of the old soakaways of 19th/20th century - let some stuff be absorbed by the ground and get the groundwater polluted - should be reminded that the ground where the plastic tank as well as the concrete rings were placed has already received a concrete floor. So no soakaway.
It seems that there is one thing that the builder wanted to avoid in all cases: the totally outdated and groundwater polluting soakaways. Good man, this builder. =D>
It seems that there is one thing that the builder wanted to avoid in all cases: the totally outdated and groundwater polluting soakaways. Good man, this builder. =D>
Mick's House Build
Since been in Thailand have given up dunny paper
I even stopped it buying it in Australia and went with the wash bum squirter
No more worrying about whether the paper is softer enough on that delicate place
Or stronger enough not to put your finger threw the paper.
Plus never have to worry about do you have some when most needed
I even stopped it buying it in Australia and went with the wash bum squirter
No more worrying about whether the paper is softer enough on that delicate place
Or stronger enough not to put your finger threw the paper.
Plus never have to worry about do you have some when most needed
Mick's House Build
Ok,
Spoke to builder today about the options.
He has convinced me to leave it the way he has done it.
He has done plenty this way and government places that have many more people using the system that we ever will.
Never had a problem
All three tanks have removable tops to pump out.
So, I'm gunna trust the locals on this one.
I am impressed with his crew and their work.
Worst case scenario, I have to dig up a couple pies and clean them out.
No big deal really.
Mick
Spoke to builder today about the options.
He has convinced me to leave it the way he has done it.
He has done plenty this way and government places that have many more people using the system that we ever will.
Never had a problem
All three tanks have removable tops to pump out.
So, I'm gunna trust the locals on this one.
I am impressed with his crew and their work.
Worst case scenario, I have to dig up a couple pies and clean them out.
No big deal really.
Mick
Mick's House Build
I'm confused, waanjai. One day you say you're running the greywater "straight out" so that it soaks away straight into wherever the pipe goes to, the next day you're condemning soakaways as being outdated and polluting the groundwater so you've got closed tanks you're going to have to pump out.
Have I missed something?
Have I missed something?
Mick's House Build
Let's try to solve the issues by systematically describing the progress the Thai society achieved in the last - let's say 20-30 years - in the field of wastewater treatment.JohnG wrote:I'm confused, waanjai
We all know in Esan we rarely have sewage treatment plants yet. Those are things quite common in many countries in the urbanized West. In e.g. Udon there are only trials going on that are mentioned in the social media.
Whereas in the past everything - blackwater as well as greywater - was transported into variants of soakaways that went really deep into the ground and polluted the groundwater, the first progress in the later 20th Century was the separate treatment of blackwater thru the use of septic or plastic tanks. We know these tanks were pumped out in intervalls and the content was finally distributed into fields were it was regarded as manure. Nevertheless, these efforts achievd two things: blackwater was no longer directed into the deeper layers of the ground and the process of concentration via the pumping businesses was a first step toward sewage treatment plants.
Parallel to the process of separating the blackwater from the greywater people started to think about alternative ways of transporting greywater into some form of biological treatment in ponds, klongs and drain fields. In all these instances greywater was not directed into the deeper layers of the soil but remained at the surface. Actually, if these destinations were former rice-paddies there would also be the old - and for the growing of rice necessarily needed - layer of loamy soil (compacted clay soil).
These destinations of greywater treatment soon became also the destination of surplus rain water that people started to collect with rain gutters (which started mainly with houses build with stones). And the rain not collected for drinking purposes was even regarded as supporting the processes of biological treatment (defecation).
So the separation of blackwater and greywater, the end of polluting the groundwater, was and is still state of the art today as well as in the last 30 years or so. The current situation is far from being perfect but better than the situation of the long past times of soakaways deep into the ground with their detrimental effects on the environment.
Mick's House Build
well said.. .that has been the practise in my village, indeed the missus and builder said we just usually pipe into rice field, when they looked at my gleaming new plastic poo tank and concrete rings..they had never seen a sludge box / soap oil trap before..the missus teaches environment issues to school kids, but has no idea, so darling we will start with our new house nei
- Barney
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Mick's House Build
Mick,mickojak wrote:Ok,
Spoke to builder today about the options.
He has convinced me to leave it the way he has done it.
He has done plenty this way and government places that have many more people using the system that we ever will.
Never had a problem
All three tanks have removable tops to pump out.
So, I'm gunna trust the locals on this one.
I am impressed with his crew and their work.
Worst case scenario, I have to dig up a couple pies and clean them out.
No big deal really.
Mick
Apologies for asking how your system works. Once again a simple question has turned into an epic convoluted answer .
I'm sure yours will work ok as your plumber has advised and I was only asking because I have not installed my sewerage tank as yet and looking to what tanks I may need. My house plumbing has been installed in 2 separate lines both incoming supply lines for town and grey water and outgoing drain lines both grey and sewer because I may use my grey water in the future to feed the toilet cisterns, just a future recycle thought in my head.
My only thought for you is to think about what I mentioned previously and have a grease trap installed in the line from the kitchen drains to capture oils and other food products. The oils will float and not settle in any tank and will flow out clogging your drain lines to the field.
Attached is a simple piping circuit diagram showing a grease trap installed whether you go via the septic tank or straight to grey water drainage.
Mick's House Build
Hi barney,
No problems mate.
All feedback and help welcome.
How big is the grease trap?
Can it be fitted under each kitchen benchtop, or should I put one outside before the collection tank?
How often do you need to empty it?
Mick
No problems mate.
All feedback and help welcome.
How big is the grease trap?
Can it be fitted under each kitchen benchtop, or should I put one outside before the collection tank?
How often do you need to empty it?
Mick
Mick's House Build
my trap is 40litre and sits outside buried to the lid between house and rings
Mick's House Build
Still confused!
Sounds like you're just pumping the water straight out to soak away on the surface instead of from a soakaway tank 1 or 2 metres down. Either's normal, but the effect on groundwater is unchanged.
Sounds like you're just pumping the water straight out to soak away on the surface instead of from a soakaway tank 1 or 2 metres down. Either's normal, but the effect on groundwater is unchanged.
Mick's House Build
It's still a big difference whether
you dig or drill holes deep into the ground and let the blackwater soak down even further until groundwater level is reached
or
you transport (e.g. via pipes) greywater towards areas that have an impervious compacted clay layer not very deep and let the biological treatment happen there.
You should also see the interconnections with the water- and soil-management required for ricepaddies. At least in Esan.
P.S. For your understanding: You don't pump out a soakaway - Within a soakaway (cesspit or absorbing well) the blackwater goes deeper and deeper into the ground and is - hopefully - never been seen again.
you dig or drill holes deep into the ground and let the blackwater soak down even further until groundwater level is reached
or
you transport (e.g. via pipes) greywater towards areas that have an impervious compacted clay layer not very deep and let the biological treatment happen there.
You should also see the interconnections with the water- and soil-management required for ricepaddies. At least in Esan.
P.S. For your understanding: You don't pump out a soakaway - Within a soakaway (cesspit or absorbing well) the blackwater goes deeper and deeper into the ground and is - hopefully - never been seen again.
Mick's House Build
Moving along nicely with the roof & quite well engineered I think.
Very happy with progress.
Cutouts for electrical were done today.
I am away for a couple of weeks and work will progress mainly on the roof, but who knows what else.
My wife will send me pictures of updates, so hope everything goes smooth.
mick
Very happy with progress.
Cutouts for electrical were done today.
I am away for a couple of weeks and work will progress mainly on the roof, but who knows what else.
My wife will send me pictures of updates, so hope everything goes smooth.
mick
Mick's House Build
I think coxo got it right - your understanding of soakaways is, at best, limited.
Soakaways in Issan have never generally been holes dug 'deep into the ground'; they usually go down two or three metres, no more, so any soakaway from black or grey water is no more damaging to the groundwater than that piped straight onto the leachfield. ... and what comes out of the 'overflow' of your black plastic septic tank isn't filtered or separated by some filter/separator like a main sewage system, its simply the blackwater that the naturally occurring microbes and bacteria in the blackwater solids have treated naturally for you - that's why, if all's going well and its set up properly, what soaks out of your soakaway isn't blackwater as such, but grey. On the other hand, while you've got 'biological treatment' going on in your septic tank with the bacteria and microbes there, you don't get the same effect when its simply piped onto an open field where the effect is then primarily filtering instead. One's aerobic and one's anerobic.
You shouldn't have any problem if you leave things up to your builder, but the reason I'm mentioning this is because some of the seemingly bright ideas suggested here could make definite problems for people if they copy them without doing their homework. While using some of the grey water to flush your toilets, for example, may be fine if you use the wrong grey water you could end up with a 'dead' septic tank that doesn't treat or produce grey water from black because all the grease, bleaches and agents in your washing machine or kitchen could kill the bacteria which are working away in your blackwater septic tank.
Its far from that simple, but its not quite as you explain it.
Soakaways in Issan have never generally been holes dug 'deep into the ground'; they usually go down two or three metres, no more, so any soakaway from black or grey water is no more damaging to the groundwater than that piped straight onto the leachfield. ... and what comes out of the 'overflow' of your black plastic septic tank isn't filtered or separated by some filter/separator like a main sewage system, its simply the blackwater that the naturally occurring microbes and bacteria in the blackwater solids have treated naturally for you - that's why, if all's going well and its set up properly, what soaks out of your soakaway isn't blackwater as such, but grey. On the other hand, while you've got 'biological treatment' going on in your septic tank with the bacteria and microbes there, you don't get the same effect when its simply piped onto an open field where the effect is then primarily filtering instead. One's aerobic and one's anerobic.
You shouldn't have any problem if you leave things up to your builder, but the reason I'm mentioning this is because some of the seemingly bright ideas suggested here could make definite problems for people if they copy them without doing their homework. While using some of the grey water to flush your toilets, for example, may be fine if you use the wrong grey water you could end up with a 'dead' septic tank that doesn't treat or produce grey water from black because all the grease, bleaches and agents in your washing machine or kitchen could kill the bacteria which are working away in your blackwater septic tank.
Its far from that simple, but its not quite as you explain it.