Hot water shower power

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tamada
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Re: Hot water shower power

Post by tamada » December 17, 2019, 10:27 am

sometimewoodworker wrote:
December 16, 2019, 11:05 pm
ELBs are virtually unheard of today, do you mean RCBOs/RCCBs? They are usual on showers but not normal on AC units but certainly won’t do any harm

You don’t have any in your CU and it will probably be difficult to put them on individual lines in the CU as you almost certainly will have borrowed neutrals. You an easily add them just before the showers.

If you don’t have one it would be very good practice to add one, from what you have shown so far you don’t. You should add it before the CU You probably don’t have enough room to put it in the CU.
The house was built in 2006/7 and maybe the sparky used ELB's that were more common then or ones he had been carrying around for years? Maybe that's why he used them on the aircon power lines as well? They are Haco brand, 32 A and have 'ELB' and 'Earth Leakage Breaker' wrote large on them. They are virtually identical to the appended except the newer ones seem to have an LED now.
elb.jpg
I do recall not seeing too many CU with built-in RCBO/RCCB back then which is ideally what I need now. I did have a rental in Komen City once that had a separate RCBO mounted beside the CU but it didn't seem to do anything when I had a kitchen appliance drop a dead short across that line and a small fire in the appliance wiring! There are better choices these days and I have scoped out Schneider range of CU products that kopkei uses already.

This is all good information so I can draft a comprehensive but realistic scope of work if I am lucky enough to find a more competent electrician in the new year.

Muchas gracias

El tam



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sometimewoodworker
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Re: Hot water shower power

Post by sometimewoodworker » December 17, 2019, 12:55 pm

tamada wrote:
December 17, 2019, 10:27 am
sometimewoodworker wrote:
December 16, 2019, 11:05 pm
ELBs are virtually unheard of today, do you mean RCBOs/RCCBs? They are usual on showers but not normal on AC units but certainly won’t do any harm

You don’t have any in your CU and it will probably be difficult to put them on individual lines in the CU as you almost certainly will have borrowed neutrals. You an easily add them just before the showers.

If you don’t have one it would be very good practice to add one, from what you have shown so far you don’t. You should add it before the CU You probably don’t have enough room to put it in the CU.
The house was built in 2006/7 and maybe the sparky used ELB's that were more common then or ones he had been carrying around for years? Maybe that's why he used them on the aircon power lines as well? They are Haco brand, 32 A and have 'ELB' and 'Earth Leakage Breaker' wrote large on them. They are virtually identical to the appended except the newer ones seem to have an LED now.


I do recall not seeing too many CU with built-in RCBO/RCCB back then which is ideally what I need now. I did have a rental in Komen City once that had a separate RCBO mounted beside the CU but it didn't seem to do anything when I had a kitchen appliance drop a dead short across that line and a small fire in the appliance wiring! There are better choices these days and I have scoped out Schneider range of CU products that kopkei uses already.

This is all good information so I can draft a comprehensive but realistic scope of work if I am lucky enough to find a more competent electrician in the new year.

Muchas gracias

El tam
That is a good substitute for the ones you usually put in the CU although you should probably swap it for a smaller one like this
E322B504-1776-4F5A-BEEC-DE5AF877C5A9.jpeg
15A RCD
You have to understand the way they work to know why a dead short will not trip one. That is because the power was going through the line and neutral so was balanced and thus they don’t trip. The appliance wiring wasn’t able to cope with the short Amps so overheated. If you had a fire in the supply cables then the breaker could/was oversized.

Realistically the only thing that will probably work for a dead short is a UK style fused plug.
Jerome and Nui's new househttp://bit.ly/NJnewHouse

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Barney
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Re: Hot water shower power

Post by Barney » December 17, 2019, 1:36 pm

Swap to RCBO
That will incorporate both types of protection required.
Human protection at 30ma
Wiring protection at rated current
Or
Replace your outlets with individual built in protection.
Ask your sparky what he can achieve and best with your current installation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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sometimewoodworker
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Re: Hot water shower power

Post by sometimewoodworker » December 17, 2019, 2:51 pm

Barney wrote:
December 17, 2019, 1:36 pm
Swap to RCBO
That will incorporate both types of protection required.
Human protection at 30ma
Wiring protection at rated current
Or
Replace your outlets with individual built in protection.
Ask your sparky what he can achieve and best with your current installation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
FWIW both the 30A one and my 15A one are RCBOs, they are just surface mount versions and usually protect a single outlet or appliance, you need to make sure that the line and neutral are wired correctly and they don’t look as pretty but they are perfectly OK and functional.

Certainly a whole house RCBO is preferable but having those on individual outlets can not hurt and may be enough.

ELB is the deprecated And not really correct name as both of them incorporate a MCB
Jerome and Nui's new househttp://bit.ly/NJnewHouse

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tamada
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Re: Hot water shower power

Post by tamada » December 17, 2019, 10:58 pm

I had a go at confirming what the hand written Thai label on the front of the CU claimed was on each circuit breaker.

Epic fail!

It would appear that maybe the sparky wrote the label BEFORE he started running the wires and lost the plot half way through the job and wired in whatever came down the conduit next, regardless of what the label said. The Master bedroom air is on one of the 16 A breakers, not a 32 A one and the ensuite hot water shower is NOT on a dedicated 32 A line; it's wired into the Master bedroom's 32 A all power side.... that's probably explains why the master bedroom lights go off when I turn off the hot water shower units ELB.

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sometimewoodworker
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Re: Hot water shower power

Post by sometimewoodworker » December 18, 2019, 6:43 am

Given what you are finding it’s quite important to check that the line and neutral are the correct way round on the ELBs.

Also did he go with 4mm cable everywhere? An AC, even a big one, isn’t power hungry so the 16A isn’t a problem.

The shower doesn’t need a dedicated line (though it’s good practice) so unless you’ve got a big hair dryer going in the bedroom while someone is in the shower it’s probably not going to get near the limit and even then it‘s probably OK.
Jerome and Nui's new househttp://bit.ly/NJnewHouse

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