power fluctuations

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kopkei
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power fluctuations

Post by kopkei » September 15, 2020, 9:07 am

hi guy's ,
as most of us know the thais power line is famous because of his power fluctuations high or low , and most inverter based appliances can not handle these differences , as i have experienced with our electrolux fridge , compressor failure after only 7 years and a while ago our electrolux washing machine , motherboard failure all due to these fluctuations according to the electrolux service guy, so to protect my fridge i have bought this...
https://shopee.co.th/product/159618610/4234938767
costs 230 baht ...
and as i do not have any spare room in my fuse box, i installed it like this ...
IMG_20200915_084638[1].jpg
i have set the up limit to 240V,low limit to 200V....
so will this be adequate or not ? any extra info or advice to improve anything welcome , i know there are some electric experts here ,thanks ...



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tamada
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by tamada » September 15, 2020, 9:49 am

This should work fine for most appliances, TV, computer, etc., but probably won't help fridges and air conditioners much. Looking at the specs, the default cut-off times are 0.1 seconds for overvoltage (to a maximumum of 10 seconds) and 60 seconds for undervoltage (to a maximum of 560 seconds). If the power drop is of a short duration, the power will be restored quickly which isn't good for fridge or aircon compressors. Ideally, a compressor should have a least 5 minutes delay after a sudden power outage before restoring power. If your main issue is undervoltage, adjust the time for 300 seconds. If frequent overvoltage is more of a problem, this may not be the best solution.

In Myanmar, the gadgets pictured below are in most provincial and rural hotels where power supplies can be lumpy. They have a hard-wired 5 minute delay regardless if over or under voltage. Since we could never convince the generator changeover guy to wait about 5 minutes when swapping over the camp power generators, I had them installed in our remote campsite which had about two dozen air conditioners and half a dozen fridges and freezers. They only cost around 300 baht so I should have bought a few and taken them home to Udon when I had the chance!
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by DuiDui49 » September 15, 2020, 10:17 am

Best regards
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tamada
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by tamada » September 15, 2020, 10:35 am

DuiDui49 wrote:
September 15, 2020, 10:17 am
What about this one:

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/3-10a ... a&search=1
A bit spendy but does give 3 minutes delay protection which should be adequate if the power isn't in an out like the proverbial.

I recall seeing something similar at Amorn a few weeks back at around 800 baht. There were two different model/power types. I will go take a looksee before lunch.

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tamada
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by tamada » September 15, 2020, 10:42 am

@kopkei, I just read the full specs for your device on lazada and the over/under voltage max time delay is BOTH only 10 seconds which isn't enough for your fridge and air conditioner. The over current delay protection is adjustable to 512 seconds.

No problem using for protection with other appliances with non-inductive loads such as the computer, rice cooker and small fans. Larger motors like the washing machine may have issues since motors and compressors are inductive loads.

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sometimewoodworker
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by sometimewoodworker » September 15, 2020, 1:43 pm

While the under/over protection devices are capable of switching reasonable loads adding in a contact to actually switch the loads is a better design like this.
A58AA573-37FD-4D2D-AFE0-7EC2FEB6AEB8.jpeg
Correct under/over + contactor
This is the U/O unit and it’s quite configurable for all 4 parameters
4D659D2B-D6BA-4AEA-A435-C9196D8B6B93.jpeg
Last edited by sometimewoodworker on September 16, 2020, 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bandung_Dero
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by Bandung_Dero » September 15, 2020, 2:22 pm

Trivial BUT: You have the color codes incorrect (Not to say your GPO or plug top is wired as per Thai wiring rules???)

BLACK is Active (Line)
GREY is Neutral

And typical Thai, the earth just swinging around doing nothing!!!!

IMHO:- Not a great photo.

BTW I certainly hope the device is installed in a location where kids can't put their fingers on the exposed terminal screws. [-X
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by dragonz » September 15, 2020, 6:52 pm

Bandung_Dero wrote:
September 15, 2020, 2:22 pm
Trivial BUT: You have the color codes incorrect (Not to say your GPO or plug top is wired as per Thai wiring rules???)

BLACK is Active (Line)
GREY is Neutral

And typical Thai, the earth just swinging around doing nothing!!!!

IMHO:- Not a great photo.

BTW I certainly hope the device is installed in a location where kids can't put their fingers on the exposed terminal screws. [-X
In my house grey is live and black is neutral and was put in but a very good electrician ?

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tamada
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by tamada » September 15, 2020, 11:15 pm

I checked on the 'fridge protectors' in Amorn. There's a 10A model (fridge/freezer) for 650 baht and a 16A model (air conditioner) for 750 baht. The lo-hi voltage cut-off ranges are 175-265 with a 3 minute reset delay.

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Barney
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by Barney » September 15, 2020, 11:31 pm

I’ve never checked but can household insurance available in Thailand cover PEA supply electrical problems for appliances?


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kopkei
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by kopkei » September 16, 2020, 6:21 am

the main problem with our power outages is not an over voltage problem but the under voltage one , sometimes power goes down to 65V , jumping to 125-150 and vice versa , i bought this so power should only restore at my set limit of minimum 200V ,exactly what this item will do i think , i did changed the delay time to 300sec as advised by tam , as i understand the logic in this ,the protector is 40A and only covers the fridge ,it is the same system as stww 100A one only digital and 40A, as of the connections , i used the original fridge cable , a 2 pole gray/black with a separate green/yellow earth wire next to , i did cut the 2 pole cable and installed the protector in between , as of connection of appliances ,the polarity of the cables is not important as household electricity uses AC, which has no polarity , or rather, it switches polarity at about 120 times a second ,so your appliance will work either way around.... the green/yellow cable is not dangling at all but still connected , and yes i did put some black tape to cover the screw holes after i took the (bad?) picture,as extra protection but no children in our home anyway , most visit stays outdoor at covered terrace ,no small chickens in the home :D ,anyway the item is located behind the fridge and only accessible by moving the fridge ,if it is working properly it would be a cheap fix at 230 baht , i will check this next power outage and update result here ....thanks ...;)

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Bandung_Dero
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by Bandung_Dero » September 16, 2020, 1:37 pm

dragonz wrote:
September 15, 2020, 6:52 pm
<snip>
In my house grey is live and black is neutral and was put in but a very good electrician ?
You may like to reassess your "very good electrician"! :confused:

@ Crossy from TV is their electrical guru.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/473528 ... nt-4475948

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/107036 ... t-13598409
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kopkei
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by kopkei » September 16, 2020, 2:14 pm

the color codes of the cables will vary country to country , as long as the electrician knows what color he uses for fe neutral or line and mention the colors in his schematics it will be easy to know ,in our home i have used red as line, black as neutral and green as earth , also blue as line coming from light switches,
so color codes for los vary, old fashion or new fashioned ,single phase or 3 phase ...
fe ..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB5ZXwV60Rg
so normal ruling in los for single phase is brown for line , blue for neutral ,yellow/green for earth..
as info ;)

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Re: power fluctuations

Post by andymu » September 16, 2020, 2:41 pm

I would say your under/over voltage mointor is polarity conscious for the sheer fact it has live and neutral written below each connection. AC is alternating current 230 volts@ 50 hz, only one cable is live at all times it does not jump from cable to cable. In my opinion 7 years for a fridge compressor in these conditions(extremly hot) isnt far off. In cooler climates it will work less and you could get over 10 years. On a safety issue I would buy a plastic box for electrical connections and put your monitor in it, fit it to the wall install your cables via gromets or stuffing gland. No exposed electrical connections.

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Bandung_Dero
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by Bandung_Dero » September 16, 2020, 3:00 pm

It is not a normal ruling for Thailand! Brown (A), Blue (N) and Green/Yellow is an international standard gradually being adopted by most western countries. Australia - about 30/35 years ago. As far as I know and not spending all my time translating Thai Standards documentation it has not been "formally" gazetted into Thai standards YET.

Thai manufactured TPS type (Thermoplastic-sheathed cable) general purpose building cable is still on the shelf here as Black, Grey and Green, as with their 3 core flex seen in your photo.
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by Bandung_Dero » September 16, 2020, 3:54 pm

And I might like to add:-

See the photo of my home made, 19 year old domestic distribution panel and note the protection.

Waiting ---- Waiting ---- Waiting ---- ......

Yes, it contains double pole isolation and circuit protection. Both Active and Neutral are disconnected through a trip or for maintenance. Why? After all those years the so called "very good electricians" have still not been educated and the Farang are still totally confused. Whats the point of throwing a circuit breaker to do some work just to find it's the neutral that has been isolated and the active is still live?

Isn't it any wonder so many Thais (and a few Farang) are being killed every year.
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by dragonz » September 16, 2020, 9:40 pm

Bandung_Dero wrote:
September 16, 2020, 1:37 pm
dragonz wrote:
September 15, 2020, 6:52 pm
<snip>
In my house grey is live and black is neutral and was put in but a very good electrician ?
You may like to reassess your "very good electrician"! :confused:

@ Crossy from TV is their electrical guru.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/473528 ... nt-4475948

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/107036 ... t-13598409
Well he did a good job on my house all the cables in the wall and on a ring and excellent work . I am just saying there is no definate standard in thailand

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kopkei
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by kopkei » September 17, 2020, 5:39 am

@bandundero, when i look at your picture i think the fuse box is put together by a 2 year old ...(sorry)
so 80A main breaker divided over 5 breakers to protect everything? ,fe 1 breaker 20A for all electrical outlets down stairs ,and 1 for all electrical outlets upstairs ? maybe not all clear on the photo ...
anyway our fuse box looks like this
IMG_20200916_174919[1].jpg
black = neutral,red = line ,yellow/green = earth,
main rcbo 63A (a 40A would have been enough too) cutting all line wire in case of problem..
main supply L+N copper cable 25 sq.mm
main earth copper cable 16sq.mm
all (12) 20A breakers , as i like to keep things simple, all 2,5 sq.mm cable used for everything ...
can you post a picture of your box without the cover plate so we can see all connections and maybe understand better ?
thanks , ;)

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Re: power fluctuations

Post by AlexO » September 17, 2020, 7:01 am

tamada wrote:
September 15, 2020, 10:42 am
@kopkei, I just read the full specs for your device on lazada and the over/under voltage max time delay is BOTH only 10 seconds which isn't enough for your fridge and air conditioner. The over current delay protection is adjustable to 512 seconds.

No problem using for protection with other appliances with non-inductive loads such as the computer, rice cooker and small fans. Larger motors like the washing machine may have issues since motors and compressors are inductive loads.
So my Hitachi (instant restart)automatic washing machine is going against all the principles of physics and just when does a "small fan" morph into a fan capable of being called an inductive load.

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sometimewoodworker
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Re: power fluctuations

Post by sometimewoodworker » September 17, 2020, 7:35 am

kopkei wrote:
September 17, 2020, 5:39 am
@bandundero, when i look at your picture i think the fuse box is put together by a 2 year old ...(sorry)
so 80A main breaker divided over 5 breakers to protect everything? ,fe 1 breaker 20A for all electrical outlets down stairs ,and 1 for all electrical outlets upstairs ? maybe not all clear on the photo ...
Maybe new glasses? The legends are clear in the picture.
Two 10A MCBs for lights
Two 20A B curve MCBs for power
The value of the right hand MCB is unknown, but probably a 20A as it’s also for power.
A 25A RCCB (It claims to need an 80A protector which is strange)

The only point that look unusual and quite possibly wrong are the 2 individual 80A non linked MCBs on the left which could be the incoming line and neutral, if so should be linked and are quite possibly too high.

Why Siemens is asking for 80A protection for the 5SZ3222 seems very strange but it’s being followed in that CU
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