Maybe it's the translation of the meeting, but the article doesn't give one the impression that the rail bridge is going to happen any time soon.
https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/transpo ... nd-railway
Lao Railway Progress
Re: Lao Railway Progress
Was watching a youtuber based in Lao named 'Now in Lao' and a recent review of the service inside Lao. Seems that Thailand is running way behind in getting ready to connect to this service?
https://youtu.be/dvZ-tPMdanI
[youtube]https://youtu.be/dvZ-tPMdanI[/youtube]
https://youtu.be/dvZ-tPMdanI
[youtube]https://youtu.be/dvZ-tPMdanI[/youtube]
Re: Lao Railway Progress
on that railway bridge at Nong Khai.. This link is about a year back in the string.. Seems Anutin totally forgot Thailand has already signed a Memorandum of Agreement to get the bridge built several years ago. https://www.greatermekong.org/railway-b ... -vientiane
As for "studies" you would think that the geological and river bed studies done to build the current Friendship Bridge at Nong Kahi would merely need to be updated to move forward on contruction...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM3YcaDYnAQ
As for "studies" you would think that the geological and river bed studies done to build the current Friendship Bridge at Nong Kahi would merely need to be updated to move forward on contruction...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM3YcaDYnAQ
Dave
Re: Lao Railway Progress
From today Asia Nikkei
ECONOMY
China's pan-Asian railway sputters to a halt in Thailand
Bangkok's indifference to Beijing's plan creates gap in Belt and Road network
Relations between Thai Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha and Chinese President Xi Jinping are under the spotlight as the success of Beijing's Belt and Road Initiative rests on Thai sector. (Source photos by Xinhua/Kyodo, Getty Images and Akira Kodaka)
TORU TAKAHASHI, Editor-in-Chief, Editorial Headquarters for Asia
January 16, 2022 13:32 JST
BANGKOK -- China's plan to build a pan-Asian railway through the Indochina region is sputtering as construction of a connection to Thailand has stalled due to deteriorating ties and both countries' diverging priorities.
Part of Beijing's plans for the region came to fruition in December when the China-Laos high-speed railway began operating. Beijing funded 70% of the $6 billion construction project, part of its Belt and Road Initiative. It has also extended loans to Laos to cover the rest. So far, it is believed that Laos has shelled out not much more than $100 million.
Everything needed to build and operate the railway line, from design and construction to rolling stocks, signal systems and operational management expertise, was provided by China.
Laos has long struggled economically, being the only landlocked country in Southeast Asia. China has dangled the prospect of economic growth under its Belt and Road Initiative to get Laos onboard with its plans.
The rail project was first announced in 2010, and began to take a clear shape after Beijing in 2013 unveiled its plan to connect Kunming in Yunnan to Singapore by rail. Construction in Laos started in 2016.
The China-Laos railway project has been almost entirely financed and constructed by China. © Kyodo
China has been keen to play the leading role in the building of a railway network in Southeast Asia. Its principal aim is to secure a land transport route that can serve as an alternative to marine shipping routes that pass through the South China Sea and the Malacca Straits.
For this strategy to work, China needs Thailand to cooperate as the railway line has to go through the country to reach Malaysia and Singapore. Some experts in Thailand are clamoring for quick government action to connect Thailand and Laos with a high-speed railway line, but the government has been less keen.
A monk blesses a train during a Buddhist ceremony a day before the launch of the China-Laos railway project in Vientiane early December. © Reuters
Ideally, China wants to build a 608 km rail link that connects Bangkok with Nong Khai Province, which is across the Mekong River from Vientiane. This line was designed for trains to carry passengers and cargoes at a maximum speed of 180 kph. To this end, Beijing had secured an agreement with Bangkok in 2015. The Thai government at that time was also keen to make the relationship work.
Under initial plans, China was committed to provide funds to a newly established joint Chinese-Thai venture to complete the link in 2020, ahead of the China-Laos line. But by the time construction began in 2017, Thailand had drastically changed the plans for the project.
Bangkok felt it had reasons to be cautious about embracing China's vision.
A China-Laos train crossing a bridge over the Yuanjiang River in southwestern China's Yunnan Province. © Xinhua via AP
This was because of what Bangkok considered to be unreasonable demands from Beijing, including the terms of its loans and the requirement that Chinese materials and workers be used for the construction. China also wanted the right to develop areas along the railway line.
Those demands ruffled Bangkok's feathers and the project was cut by about 60% to become a 253 km railway line between Bangkok and Nakhon Ratchasima Province. It was also redesigned as a high-speed line only for passengers at a maximum speed of 250 kph.
The plan to set up a Chinese-Thai joint venture was also scrapped as it was decided that Thailand will bear entirely the total construction cost of 170 billion baht ($5 billion).
These changes sharply reduced China's role in the project. Under the new blueprint, Thailand will finance, build and operate the railway line on its own, while designs and systems for the high-speed train services will be provided by China.
Passengers on the Chinese side board the first regular train serving the China-Laos link early December. © FeatureChina via AP
Since then, the project has been proceeding at a glacial pace.
Four years later, only 4% of the work to build the Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima section, which the Thai government considers as the first phase, has been completed. Ground leveling has been done only for 3.5 km of the railway tracks near Nakhon Ratchasima.
The Thai government will continue considering a plan to extend the line to Nong Khai in the second phase of the project. It has finished designing the second section on its own, but the specifics of the plan, including how to raise the necessary funds, have yet to be worked out.
Only 4% of the Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima section has been completed in the four years after groundbreaking. (Photo by Anchalee Romruen)
Thailand is uncertain about extending the high-speed railway line to the border of Laos through a project that is essentially Beijing's which also requires it to pay for the installation of Chinese systems in addition to other costs.
This is particularly the case when Thailand already has a railway link with Laos. Its Northeastern Line connects Bangkok with Nong Khai. An extension into Laos, a 3.5 km railway track between Nong Khai and Thanaleng, just some 20 km west of Vientiane, was completed in March 2009. Cargo operations started in 2019.
Rail is not the mainstream form of public transport in Thailand, although the government has plans to double its rail tracks to expand capacity. Rail accounts for only 20% of passenger traffic and 2% of cargo transport now.
Rail travel is not the mainstream in Thailand, serving only 20% of those who use public transport. © EPA/Jiji
Under its initial plans with China, Bangkok thought that building a high-speed line between Bangkok and Nakhon Ratchasima will help it to reduce passengers on its Northeastern Line and carry more cargo.
But Thailand does not necessarily need a high-speed link between Nakhon Ratchasima and Nong Khai, as passenger transit along this route matters little to the country. Without it, China's Belt and Road Initiative will feature a big gap.
Thailand is also dragging its feet because high-speed rail services for passengers is already commercially viable without a link between Nong Khai and Nakhon Ratchasima, which is close to two national parks including Khao Yai, a popular summer resort. Demand for rail services to Nong Khai will not be large given that there are many budget airlines that fly there from Bangkok and southern China.
Underlying these practical considerations, a loss of trust in the Chinese has also affected how Thailand views the whole project. The bilateral cooperation was initiated by Thailand after the military coup in 2014, which provoked a wave of criticism among Western democracies and Japan.
To fend off pressure from the West, Bangkok invited Beijing to help its efforts to expand its rail network. But since construction for the first phase of the project began, Thai officials and company executives have claimed that Chinese supervisors have been difficult to work with.
For now, as Beijing needs Thai cooperation for it to realize its Belt and Road Initiative, Bangkok can afford to take its time
ECONOMY
China's pan-Asian railway sputters to a halt in Thailand
Bangkok's indifference to Beijing's plan creates gap in Belt and Road network
Relations between Thai Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha and Chinese President Xi Jinping are under the spotlight as the success of Beijing's Belt and Road Initiative rests on Thai sector. (Source photos by Xinhua/Kyodo, Getty Images and Akira Kodaka)
TORU TAKAHASHI, Editor-in-Chief, Editorial Headquarters for Asia
January 16, 2022 13:32 JST
BANGKOK -- China's plan to build a pan-Asian railway through the Indochina region is sputtering as construction of a connection to Thailand has stalled due to deteriorating ties and both countries' diverging priorities.
Part of Beijing's plans for the region came to fruition in December when the China-Laos high-speed railway began operating. Beijing funded 70% of the $6 billion construction project, part of its Belt and Road Initiative. It has also extended loans to Laos to cover the rest. So far, it is believed that Laos has shelled out not much more than $100 million.
Everything needed to build and operate the railway line, from design and construction to rolling stocks, signal systems and operational management expertise, was provided by China.
Laos has long struggled economically, being the only landlocked country in Southeast Asia. China has dangled the prospect of economic growth under its Belt and Road Initiative to get Laos onboard with its plans.
The rail project was first announced in 2010, and began to take a clear shape after Beijing in 2013 unveiled its plan to connect Kunming in Yunnan to Singapore by rail. Construction in Laos started in 2016.
The China-Laos railway project has been almost entirely financed and constructed by China. © Kyodo
China has been keen to play the leading role in the building of a railway network in Southeast Asia. Its principal aim is to secure a land transport route that can serve as an alternative to marine shipping routes that pass through the South China Sea and the Malacca Straits.
For this strategy to work, China needs Thailand to cooperate as the railway line has to go through the country to reach Malaysia and Singapore. Some experts in Thailand are clamoring for quick government action to connect Thailand and Laos with a high-speed railway line, but the government has been less keen.
A monk blesses a train during a Buddhist ceremony a day before the launch of the China-Laos railway project in Vientiane early December. © Reuters
Ideally, China wants to build a 608 km rail link that connects Bangkok with Nong Khai Province, which is across the Mekong River from Vientiane. This line was designed for trains to carry passengers and cargoes at a maximum speed of 180 kph. To this end, Beijing had secured an agreement with Bangkok in 2015. The Thai government at that time was also keen to make the relationship work.
Under initial plans, China was committed to provide funds to a newly established joint Chinese-Thai venture to complete the link in 2020, ahead of the China-Laos line. But by the time construction began in 2017, Thailand had drastically changed the plans for the project.
Bangkok felt it had reasons to be cautious about embracing China's vision.
A China-Laos train crossing a bridge over the Yuanjiang River in southwestern China's Yunnan Province. © Xinhua via AP
This was because of what Bangkok considered to be unreasonable demands from Beijing, including the terms of its loans and the requirement that Chinese materials and workers be used for the construction. China also wanted the right to develop areas along the railway line.
Those demands ruffled Bangkok's feathers and the project was cut by about 60% to become a 253 km railway line between Bangkok and Nakhon Ratchasima Province. It was also redesigned as a high-speed line only for passengers at a maximum speed of 250 kph.
The plan to set up a Chinese-Thai joint venture was also scrapped as it was decided that Thailand will bear entirely the total construction cost of 170 billion baht ($5 billion).
These changes sharply reduced China's role in the project. Under the new blueprint, Thailand will finance, build and operate the railway line on its own, while designs and systems for the high-speed train services will be provided by China.
Passengers on the Chinese side board the first regular train serving the China-Laos link early December. © FeatureChina via AP
Since then, the project has been proceeding at a glacial pace.
Four years later, only 4% of the work to build the Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima section, which the Thai government considers as the first phase, has been completed. Ground leveling has been done only for 3.5 km of the railway tracks near Nakhon Ratchasima.
The Thai government will continue considering a plan to extend the line to Nong Khai in the second phase of the project. It has finished designing the second section on its own, but the specifics of the plan, including how to raise the necessary funds, have yet to be worked out.
Only 4% of the Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima section has been completed in the four years after groundbreaking. (Photo by Anchalee Romruen)
Thailand is uncertain about extending the high-speed railway line to the border of Laos through a project that is essentially Beijing's which also requires it to pay for the installation of Chinese systems in addition to other costs.
This is particularly the case when Thailand already has a railway link with Laos. Its Northeastern Line connects Bangkok with Nong Khai. An extension into Laos, a 3.5 km railway track between Nong Khai and Thanaleng, just some 20 km west of Vientiane, was completed in March 2009. Cargo operations started in 2019.
Rail is not the mainstream form of public transport in Thailand, although the government has plans to double its rail tracks to expand capacity. Rail accounts for only 20% of passenger traffic and 2% of cargo transport now.
Rail travel is not the mainstream in Thailand, serving only 20% of those who use public transport. © EPA/Jiji
Under its initial plans with China, Bangkok thought that building a high-speed line between Bangkok and Nakhon Ratchasima will help it to reduce passengers on its Northeastern Line and carry more cargo.
But Thailand does not necessarily need a high-speed link between Nakhon Ratchasima and Nong Khai, as passenger transit along this route matters little to the country. Without it, China's Belt and Road Initiative will feature a big gap.
Thailand is also dragging its feet because high-speed rail services for passengers is already commercially viable without a link between Nong Khai and Nakhon Ratchasima, which is close to two national parks including Khao Yai, a popular summer resort. Demand for rail services to Nong Khai will not be large given that there are many budget airlines that fly there from Bangkok and southern China.
Underlying these practical considerations, a loss of trust in the Chinese has also affected how Thailand views the whole project. The bilateral cooperation was initiated by Thailand after the military coup in 2014, which provoked a wave of criticism among Western democracies and Japan.
To fend off pressure from the West, Bangkok invited Beijing to help its efforts to expand its rail network. But since construction for the first phase of the project began, Thai officials and company executives have claimed that Chinese supervisors have been difficult to work with.
For now, as Beijing needs Thai cooperation for it to realize its Belt and Road Initiative, Bangkok can afford to take its time
Re: Lao Railway Progress
the story lacks current information. Yes, the first two years of "construction" down south of Khorat near Pak Chong resulted in about 5 kilomters of finished grade.. Definite foot dragging. But, in the last year things have picked up with construction continuing to include several elevate portions of the track specifically for the SGR high speed system. Various Thai YouTube videos outline all the contracts that are signed, budgeted and funded. The Khorat to Nong Khai section of the project has an approved EIA and has been budgeted. When will it start? Who knows. As part of the link the SRT completed dual tracking between Khorat and Khon Kaen left adequate right of way and bridge space so putting the the tracks doesn't appear to be a huge undertaking. From KK to Nong Khai, the SRT has yet to dual track although the EIA done for the High Speed included the SRT dual tracking project too..
Here's a drone video from late December of the HSR construction south of Khorat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2XmqwYxuM0
This is not the SRT dual track of the 1 meter gauge rail viaduct. That is pretty much complete now and passes over the town of Muak Lek which is southwest of the reservoir lake on the way to Saraburi from Khorat..
Of course, where they are constructing the HSR now is on fairly level ground. When they get into the hills further south there will be tunneling and viaducts that will be time consuming.. Makes you wonder why they just didn't build it north to south since the Khorat to Nong Khai route has only one major river the Nam Phong to cross and low rolling hills but mostly flatland..
Here's a drone video from late December of the HSR construction south of Khorat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2XmqwYxuM0
This is not the SRT dual track of the 1 meter gauge rail viaduct. That is pretty much complete now and passes over the town of Muak Lek which is southwest of the reservoir lake on the way to Saraburi from Khorat..
Of course, where they are constructing the HSR now is on fairly level ground. When they get into the hills further south there will be tunneling and viaducts that will be time consuming.. Makes you wonder why they just didn't build it north to south since the Khorat to Nong Khai route has only one major river the Nam Phong to cross and low rolling hills but mostly flatland..
Dave
Re: Lao Railway Progress
as noted, that article lacks significant information and while painfully slow by my estimation the construction of the HSR in Thailand has not "sputtered to a halt"... It may take longer than initially planned but it will happen... It will likely go hand-in-hand with SRT dual tracking from KK to Nong Khai with its attendant elevated section from south of Udon to the north side..
"
"
Dave
Re: Lao Railway Progress
here ya go.. an individual Communication company with a 17 January video reviewing the entire Bangkok to Khorat high speed rail construction from Bang Sue Grand Station to Khorat. It also outlines how many contracts have been awarded and how much money budgeted for each.. So... hardly "sputtering to a halt." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQNm8YqZUtg
Dave
Re: Lao Railway Progress
Bangkok to Korat due to open in 2026. The rest (purportedly) by 2028.
I Hope it ends Well.
I Hope it ends Well.
Re: Lao Railway Progress
since the earlier article predicing the imminent demise of the project shows in a number of spots the Thai government shying away from Chinese funding/loans and significant participation that certainly could be a good thing for Thailand. Perhaps the project will move a bit slower with the Thais funding it themselves or... perhaps t'is a tickler to get the Chinese to provide lower interest loans and grants. After all it is a key Chinese Belt And Road Initiative priority to get the railway down through Thailand, Malaysia and into Singapore.. I still think we should keep an eagle eye on when they break ground to build that railway bridge in Nong Khai.. If the Chinese were to fund it gratis I think it would be up in less than 2 years with a huge push to start building the high speed rail north to south.. In watching that 49 minute individual Communication video what jumps out is that there was nary a single piece of equipment, bridge abutment or sign with Chinese characters on them. Up in Laos every piece of that railway is marked in Chinese characters.. I've read some of the awarded contracts are being done by Chinese companies (or perhaps joint venture Thai/Chinese) but all the engineers and forement interviewed in the video were Thai.. Again, the exact opposite of the Lao Railway where every key person interviewed was and is Chinese.
Dave
-
jackspratt
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 16155
- Joined: July 2, 2006, 5:29 pm
Re: Lao Railway Progress
Things are moving:
ps interesting to see Anutin's name popping up more and more - chairing this, commenting on that.Cabinet orders quick 2nd bridge between Nong Khai and Laos
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... i-and-laos
Re: Lao Railway Progress
Doesn't his family own a big construction company?jackspratt wrote: ↑January 18, 2022, 8:00 pmThings are moving:
ps interesting to see Anutin's name popping up more and more - chairing this, commenting on that.Cabinet orders quick 2nd bridge between Nong Khai and Laos
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... i-and-laos
'Don't waste your words on people who deserve your silence'
~Reinhold Messner~
'You don't have to be afraid of everything you don't understand'
~Louise Perica~
~Reinhold Messner~
'You don't have to be afraid of everything you don't understand'
~Louise Perica~
Re: Lao Railway Progress
I'll take the figures with a grain of salt but when you brush the initial BS about passenger service aside the real purpose of the Lao-China Railway is moving freight. Other Thai stories talk about building a freight terminal in Nong Khai primarily for trucks moving freight to and from Laos. The latest on the HSR in Thailand is that the PM has told the relevant bureaucracy to get it done earlier than the current projected 2028.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkAQ7DcxHXg
Dave
Re: Lao Railway Progress
7 Feb. 22: For those unaware, and intending to visit Laos, the China Laos railway is now in operation but for passengers, services are currently limited to Vientiane to the Chinese border. However, cross-border freight services appear to be running successfully.
The Laotian Times, at this link, explains the regulations and ticket prices etc: https://laotiantimes.com/.../laos-china ... y-confirms.../
Visit us at www.fuzzykensblog.com
The Laotian Times, at this link, explains the regulations and ticket prices etc: https://laotiantimes.com/.../laos-china ... y-confirms.../
Visit us at www.fuzzykensblog.com
Re: Lao Railway Progress
A bridge too far, into the future
The Chinese and Laos partnership has completed the construction of the railway from Kunming to Vientiane, which is already operating freight services. This is producing great interest in countries both near and far, wishing to take advantage of import and export opportunities. Interestingly though, it appears that only now, that the Thai Government has approved the project of building a bridge to bring the trains into Thailand, and will undertake a study of what will be required.
Since it is perfectly obvious, that some form of crossing, bridge or tunnel, is required, I am left wondering why it is only now that the Thai authorities have decided to undertake a study that may take a year to complete, let alone the time it will take to construct the proposed bridge. More about this at the following link to Vietnam Plus, who has the story:
https://en.vietnamplus.vn/thailand-plan ... 221703.vnp
www.fuzzykensblog.com
The Chinese and Laos partnership has completed the construction of the railway from Kunming to Vientiane, which is already operating freight services. This is producing great interest in countries both near and far, wishing to take advantage of import and export opportunities. Interestingly though, it appears that only now, that the Thai Government has approved the project of building a bridge to bring the trains into Thailand, and will undertake a study of what will be required.
Since it is perfectly obvious, that some form of crossing, bridge or tunnel, is required, I am left wondering why it is only now that the Thai authorities have decided to undertake a study that may take a year to complete, let alone the time it will take to construct the proposed bridge. More about this at the following link to Vietnam Plus, who has the story:
https://en.vietnamplus.vn/thailand-plan ... 221703.vnp
www.fuzzykensblog.com
Re: Lao Railway Progress
Meanwhile, more deliberations about what to do with the Ring Road/Ban Chan intersection and rail crossing (site of last weeks truck/train collision)
https://udontoday.co/100265/?fbclid=IwA ... tswpCfvrY4
https://udontoday.co/100265/?fbclid=IwA ... tswpCfvrY4
Re: Lao Railway Progress
I find it quite interesting that the waters are muddied by various committees adding numerous comments and suggestions for infrastructure on the Thai side. Surely, just build the ******* bridge and deal with the infrastructure at the same time.
When compared with the 167 tunnels and 301 bridges along the China/Laos railway line of some 1,000-km, crossing the Korat plateau, in my opinion, fades into insignificance. Or am I missing something?
When compared with the 167 tunnels and 301 bridges along the China/Laos railway line of some 1,000-km, crossing the Korat plateau, in my opinion, fades into insignificance. Or am I missing something?
Re: Lao Railway Progress
Corruption dear boy money to be siphoned off.Fuzzyken wrote: ↑February 10, 2022, 1:09 pmI find it quite interesting that the waters are muddied by various committees adding numerous comments and suggestions for infrastructure on the Thai side. Surely, just build the ******* bridge and deal with the infrastructure at the same time.
When compared with the 167 tunnels and 301 bridges along the China/Laos railway line of some 1,000-km, crossing the Korat plateau, in my opinion, fades into insignificance. Or am I missing something?
Re: Lao Railway Progress
Thailand = Lots of talk and little action. There's enough bureaucracy to choke a horse in this country. Certainly one of the hallmarks along with the high level of corruption of a third world country. The latest Transparency International Index which tracks corruption has Thailand sliding down to 110 out of 180 countries studied.
An ex-pat in the Land of Smile
Re: Lao Railway Progress
remember the signed MOA from 2 years ago between the Chinese, Lao and Thai on bulding the new NOng Khai Railway bridge? Nary a mention in the PM's "get er' done" order.. As for the Thai construction of the HSR from Bangkok to Khorat, it is well under albet chugging along slowly with multiple signed contracts. On the slowness you've got to take into account the relative inexperience of the Thai construction companies doing all of it. Contrast that to the dozens of Chinese consturction companies that are to me quasi-military and specialize in Reailway, Tunnel, Bridge construction. Seems like they've done it soe many times throughout China and other countries around the world that 420km down across Lao with the many tunnels and bridges was done within timetable (5 years) in a competent fashion. Were those companies contracted and unleased to complete the Thai portion of the HSR I imagine it could be knocked out in a couple of years. The Thais however didn't like the deal the Chinese initially offered for loans nor the stipulations on commercial control of portions of the rail right of way. That was a smart move in my opinion to keep the Chinese from sinking their hooks too deep..
Dave