Rajabhat University Experiences

Thai Society and culture, Living in Thailand.
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Khun Paul
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Re: UT Rajabhat Experiences

Post by Khun Paul » September 22, 2009, 8:57 am

Logic,I hear you say, that is the problem, if you study thai's as a nation, logic does not feature in their vocabulary, and if it does only in a limited way. By itself it is not a fault just the lack of logic show in their driving, failure to capitalise on their obvous strengths both personally and in the workplace.
They fail consistently to make the most of any business they venture into.

That being said, logic if taught must be taught from an early age, so that the child learns to think for itself, this is lacking in Thai society as those of us who have dabbled in the teaching world here know, children here do not think, those that do succeed, a very small percentage.

It is the Thai pysche that seems to lack logic as a major thought process, if you ask a Thai p[erson to do a job around ypur househe /she will do just that , not seemingly noticing that maybe what they are doing is harming something else.

Something us longtimers know and deal with, but even when it comes to emotional situations, logic is not a thought process that is used, hence the lack of thought in speaking or even actions, like 'If I have his baby he won't leave me' or ' I borrow money he pay ' or other scenarios that maker us wonder if they actually have a brain at all.

One could almost equate many Thais as reluctant teenagers seeking to find their way in life and not quite knowing how to proceed, that may be a generalisation but not too far from the truth I am sure, one has to take a backward step and look at the situation dispassionately and think.

A short story as an example, I runnas you know a small petrol station, however one of the pumps stopped working, reason not known however the electric was ok, so was it the pump or the electrical supply to it.

Instead of providing power from another source to the pump ( a short 5 min job) to ascertain if power supply or pump was the problem we had some 3 hours of checking and lo and behold it was the pump.
Pump man, arrived ( the next day), fixed it, now ok. When i asked why they did not connect a seperate supply, the answer after transalation was , had to make sure electric was not a problem first. When asked why, ne sensible transalated answer was forthcoming. Logic didn't even enter his thoughts at all.
I still have my hair ....just. :-k ,



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Re: UT Rajabhat Experiences

Post by TJ » September 22, 2009, 9:23 am

Life is never simple. If the boyfriend living outside Nong Bua Lamphu is her main attraction for returning to Thailand, there is the chance he may have acquired a girfriend or a wife in her absence.

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by BKKSTAN » September 22, 2009, 1:11 pm

''Appealing to their logic'',whether they understand the meaning of logic is really irrelevant as it is part of everyones mental processes.The secret is getting them to process themselves not listen to advice of direction and purpose!
I applaud Trubrit for sending his stepdaughter to England where she got a decent education and developed qualities that were overqualified for Thai employment!Henceforth she developed the ability to come to logical conclusions from experiencing attempts at reasonable employment within Thailand,finding it difficult,if not almost impossible,her logical processing and education,gave her the ability to compare and make her choices! =D> =D>

To me,if the OP was to send his daughter to Thailand for her education it would be a travesty!If she wants to come back to Thailand,ultimately that will be her choce,make sure she understands the responsibility she is assuming for HER decision!

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mak
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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by mak » September 22, 2009, 1:18 pm

To put it into perspective, the world rankings are: Udonthani Rajabhat University #5048; Wichita State University #634; UCSB(Santa Barbara) #56; Chulalongkorn #320. webometrics.info.

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Khun Paul
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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by Khun Paul » September 22, 2009, 2:37 pm

Does this include all universities or just the bad ones

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by rick » September 22, 2009, 5:35 pm

webometrics is based on number of hits a university generates on the world wide web, has little to do with excellence except obviously bigger better universities get more hits. So treat its ratings with a degree of scepticism; if you do not publish in English also could screw your ranking. US universities are conspicuous for making 40 of the top 50 universities in the webometrics list (USA - is it that good?). The Times produces a list of 200 best universities in the world, 20 USA ones make top 50, more realistic I think. Chulalongkorn University makes 166 on this list. Sorry Udonthani Rajabhat University does not make it :cry: to top 200.

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by laphanphon » September 22, 2009, 6:10 pm

It doesn't help that she now has a boyfriend living outside Nong Bua Lamphu. :cry:
rational thinking...........not with hormones involved. obviously her main motivation to return to thailand. i personally would say, local university or none. tough love.............but she'll get a much better education there, as opposed to basically unsupervised, whether legal adult or not, lifestyle of mai pen rai here. i haven't met too many young gals, that aren' raising a child, by themselves, whether here or there. at least there, you'll have a chance to help and guide her, especially after boyfriend finds another.

good luck, think you'll need it. :roll:

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by part-timer » September 22, 2009, 8:13 pm

Surfer,

If your daughter has finished high school in the States she can enroll in the international faculty at one of the top universities in Bangkok that offer international programs. The route is actually a lot easier than the Thai entrance system route and the academic requirements are less stringent than they are for the Thai programs. Graduating from the international programs at one of these universities would look great on her resume and would enhance her job prospects ten-fold.

Obviously the medium of instructions would be English and not Thai (which might help her of her written Thai skills have taken a nose dive in recent years).

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by jimboLV » September 22, 2009, 9:21 pm

Part. I've read your original post and the subsequent discussion, lots of good advice. I had a similar experience with my daughter. it was solved with an intense series of negotiations.

I went through the same trauma with her, except not for the Thai connection. My daughter (American) announced at the age of 16 that she wanted to quit high school and go to Hollywood to be a famous actress. She had already done all the requisite research, i.e. she looked up the cost of a bus ticket from Ohio to Los Angeles. After intense negotiations with me and her cousin, a successful book publisher from New York (who told her graphically "you'll be eating flies"), we convinced her that I would put her through college in a performing arts curriculum where she could prove her acting skills, then go off to Hollywood, and if the acting didn't pan out she would always have the skills to do whatever she wanted in the industry. This appealed to her and she did just that. She did end up in Hollywood doing behind the scenes work as a PA and script supervisor and was somewhat successful at it. But the the boyfriend connection set in, she met a cop from San Fransisco and chucked the whole career idea and moved in with him. After they split up (naturally) she is now a successful graphic artist doing computer videos (this from a kid who told me at age 13 that "computers are stupid").

The bottom line is you've given them wings, now you've got to let them fly on their own, but with some guidance and negotiation. But don't try to dictate. Forget about YOUR idea of what's the best school or what's best for her career. Just concentrate on what she wants to do and facilitate that in the best way possible without compromising her future. And remember that the boyfriend factor overrides any logic, but it too shall pass.

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Khun Paul
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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by Khun Paul » September 22, 2009, 10:29 pm

''Appealing to their logic'',whether they understand the meaning of logic is really irrelevant as it is part of everyones mental processes
I concur with that statement adding a little bit, if as in many cases here, due to thew way Thailand works (or doesn't) it does not allow any person to logocal conclusions as there are no mentors.

To process for themselves is something NOT taught in Thai schools, which is what many 'learned p[eople are now shouting about, teach the Thai students to think.
So if the OP is attempting to deter his daughter from moving back to complete her education, talk to her.

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by legendarysurfer » September 23, 2009, 1:01 am

rjb: ... her daughter was already at KKU and the son was looking at universities. I asked her why didn't he go to RU here in Udon? Her reply was, if they go there the university is not highly rated in Thai and they would never be able to get a good job in BKK or another place.


parrot: If she has any intention of returning to the US after college and getting a job, the Thai diploma probably won't amount to much (if anything). Thailand may be a great place to come and retire after you've worked a lifetime and earned some money, but it's the pitts for working. Low low wages, long hours, and very narrowly focused job responsibility.

If US college isn't for her, maybe a vocational school in the US would be better than a diploma from Thailand. Another option, let her take a break from school and work in the US (even if it's McD). That worked for our daughter who quickly saw that the road to any sort of reasonable paycheck was a good education. She went back to school on her own and sailed through.


Roy: Maybe you could appeal to her logic LS. Explain that if she attends RU she has the prospect of working 6 days a week in a relatively low paying job or by toughing it out in the US for another 4 years she will greatly improve her prospects and the world is her oyster. She can still return to Thailand if she chooses, with greatly enhanced earning potential, but she will not be limited to Thailand as she surely would be if she attends RU.


jingjai: "scrap the system entirely"
Thanks to all responders. I knew I had a real problem on my hands, but all your input -- even those of you who disagree with each other on courses of action -- your input really underscores the complexities of the problem.

To reply to some of the points raised in the comments above... The KKU International School idea was first brought up by our daughter. After considering it for several months, I've rejected that idea because it is my opinion that Kulthida has no real drive to do anything "internationally." Her desire to go there is built solely on her NOT wanting to do extra work -- like getting to high school level in her Thai reading and writing. If she wants to go to a school where English is the instructional language, better for her to do it here (in the USA)... As for the regular KKU, she's pretty sure she couldn't get in precisely because her Thai is not at HS level.

Most every person that talks to her about Thai vs. US colleges says, rightfully, that she would get a better education in the US and the diploma would be better respected -- even in Thailand. I mean, even her grandparents are telling her this. These are the people who raised her when she was young. They do not have greater than a 6th grade education, themselves. And THEY know... Attending a vocational school or taking some time off and work -- both while in the US -- are worthy ideas and I have now added them to the mix. Lots of advantages with this approach.

A number of you have replied on the "logic" aspect of all this and I must say that I agree more with those of you who observe that teenagers, teenage Thais, and Thai country people in general do not practice it much if at all.

As far as still considering Kulthida going to college in Thailand, my thinking is slowly going from "where can she get a good education and be happy?" to "where is it safe to put her where she will be happy while she hopefully gets it together?" :confused:

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by jingjai » September 23, 2009, 5:45 pm

jingjai: "scrap the system entirely"
Actually, I didn't say exactly that, I referred you to this thread:
http://www.udonmap.com/udonthaniforum/s ... 15339.html
I think it is a good thread because many of respondents are teachers, former teachers, and parents.

One thing no one has touched upon is peer pressure. Peer pressure here in Thailand from the majority of her classmates will be to get by and get the degree with as little work as possible. Let's not forget that the majority of Thai educators do not motivate their students. Nor do they encourage their students to use initiative, problem solving skills, or attempt to get the students involved in classroom discussions or discussing among themselves what they are learning in the classroom, outside the classroom. Forget about Thai students being involved in academic extracurricular activities.

While the same could be said of some students in the U.S. The majority of U.S. students are motivated to learn. Many students in the U.S. are involved in academic extracurricular activities.
The teachers in the U.S. do their best to motivate their students. They do their best to encourage students to use initiative, to develop problem solving skills. They serve as facilitators to keep classrooms discussions interesting and lively, also they encourage student to discuss the things they learn in class, outside the classroom.

Since we do have a member of the forum, Bangsean_girl, who "just graduate from the university with the gold honour". Perhaps, she would be willing to share her university experiences with us? I'd be particularly interested if any of her Thai instructors taught the way I just described the way U.S. educators teach. Also, if she or any of her classmates were involved in any academic extracurricular activities?

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by BKKSTAN » September 23, 2009, 6:48 pm

Interesting point.''peer pressure''!My 17 yr.old daughter,not from this area,has found herself part of a group as she tried to get accepted into her new school last year.They are all non-studiers,different than her.she is under constant pressure to loan her phone to them during class time so they can listen to music,they copy her homework,have ask her dad to pick them up on rainy days,do trips to Udon etc.

She likes another group of girls in her class that are more interested in their academic work and has me take her to school early,ahead of her regular group,so she can socialize with this group and talk about their homework etc.!

She was getting verbal harrassment from the original group for sitting with the new group!

With our slight encouragement,after about a month,she has taken the initiative and broke from the initial group,moving her seat in class on constantly staying with her new group!She has tried stay friendly with the old group,but they chose not to talk to her,which has been uncomfortable,but she has stuck to her guns =D>

The problem is that their are a couple of classes that have outside projects assigned to various groups and one of them was the building of a cardboard house :roll: I took over to one of the old groups house last night where they assembled to work on the ''house''!After a couple of hours ,she calls me to come pick her up quickly!

It seems that the girls were not doing any work on the project as the father of of the one whose house they were at ,was doing the whole project while the girls just sat around doing nothing but gossiping and talking about boys and ignoring my daughters presence!

Funny how they slag her ,but want to copy all her work.

She stated to me ,last night,''I think I will just not take part any any of the projects with them anymore ,as we are not learning anything anyway,OK?''

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by parrot » September 23, 2009, 6:58 pm

"she can enroll in the international faculty"

She'll need a HS diploma and still have to pass an exam of some sorts to show her English proficiency. If she's deficient in any subjects, she'll have to take remedial courses before she starts full time. Costs much more than Rahjapat and you have to factor in a private apartment, utilities, etc. If she's not motivated, you'd be wasting your money. If she's motivated, she should go to school in the US and get a much better education. MHO

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by jimboLV » September 23, 2009, 7:13 pm

Stan the exact same scenario occurs in practically every Middle and High School in the US also, and probably every other country in the world. It was true when I went to school, when my kids went to school, and is true today, based on the experiences of a good friend with teenagers currently in school. It can hardly serve as an indictment of the Thai school system.

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by jimboLV » September 23, 2009, 7:35 pm

jingjai wrote:The teachers in the U.S. do their best to motivate their students. They do their best to encourage students to use initiative, to develop problem solving skills. They serve as facilitators to keep classrooms discussions interesting and lively, also they encourage student to discuss the things they learn in class, outside the classroom.
Jingjai if you really believe this you either live in an exceptional school district, or you are believing the BS put out by the school system. My kid attended what was billed as an outstanding school system in Ohio. The opposite to what you have written was true. She once got an F on a paper she submitted in a creative writing class, because she had written it in green ink, since that was the only pen she could find at the time. (She happens to be a very good writer and later went on to be a script supervisor in Hollywood working on major films). So I hied myself down to talk to the principal, showed him the paper, pointed out two misspellings on a four page essay which the teacher had not even caught. The PRINCIPAL kept changing the subject to the football team that was joint to the state championships and finally when pressed grudgingly admitted he had some prior complaints and would "talk" to the teacher in question. Of course he has to be careful because any criticism of a teacher and he'll have the union on his back. My experience (and that of other friends with kids in school) is that the teachers are anything but motivators. They are only motivated by their paycheck and retirement benefits. Your description of the US schools does not match the facts.

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by jingjai » September 23, 2009, 8:33 pm

Your description of the US schools does not match the facts.
I don't know. Perhaps, it was the years in which I attended H.S. & University (early '60's to early '70's)? Perhaps, it was the State (California) where I attended these schools? Perhaps, my memory of those times is clouded by the years? All I know is that I look back upon those years, and being intellectually stimulated by a few select instructors? Who I still remember the positive influence they had upon my life. And not only the instructors, but the whole consciousness of the University was stimulating intellectually. Perhaps, I was lucky?

I do know that when I have spoken to my nephews about their college experiences, they seem to echo what i remember. I also have friends whose children attend American universities. When I talk with them, I hear the same sentiments. I feel the same excitement in their voices regarding their higher education experiences.

I'm not doubting what you have written jimboLV. However, from the students I have met and talked to in the past 20 years...who have attended Universities in Ca., Hawaii, Az. N.M., Kansas, Wisconsin, and N.Y., things are pretty much status quo as far as teaching and learning goes as to when I went to college.
Plus, before I retired, I audited a few classes, attended screening from the film society, attended theatrical productions, took part in book discussion groups, among other things, at The University of Hawaii. The majority of students I met were getting a well rounded education and were able to give me a run for my money when we discussed intellectual, literary, or any subjects for that matter.

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by jingjai » September 23, 2009, 8:50 pm

Well I attempted to add this to my last post...but my edit time had expired. :?

Bottom line is...when I am speaking with these American college students or graduates of an American university...I feel/think I am talking with an educated articulate person.
How can a take a Thai Uni graduate serious when she has Hello Kitty stickers on her telephone or carries a teddy bear purse? C'mon, give me a break here.

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by jimboLV » September 23, 2009, 9:20 pm

JJ I think we are headed in different directions. I was talking almost exclusively about high school, teeing off recent posts about high school students, forgetting that the topic was University. :oops: I would agree with you as your comments applicable to University teachers (and students) in the USA. I really have not had any experience with Thai University students (can't count the beer girls at NM whom I assume are mostly University students).

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Re: Rajabhat University Experiences

Post by Stantheman » September 24, 2009, 12:43 am

jingjai wrote: How can a take a Thai Uni graduate serious when she has Hello Kitty stickers on her telephone or carries a teddy bear purse? C'mon, give me a break here.
What does 'Hello Kitty' stickers or a teddy bear purse have to do with a person having/getting a good University education. My daughter is currently going to a University here in the U.S., after finishing High School with a 4.125 GPA while taking 5 honers/AP classes with 'Hello Kitty' all over her phone, purses and car. Stickers and purses DO NOT make an educated person.

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