Religion and the cults

[KHONDAHM]

/begin rant

Maybe I've already posted about it somewhere, but what gets my goat is the hypocrisy of it all. I mean, really...if a religious person claims to be [whatever], then dammit, be that 100%. Not just on the designated holy days. If there is a written dogma, then follow it 100%, not just when it is convenient. Oh, and don't conveniently reinterpret said written dogma. THAT's why it was written down - so people would FOLLOW it as intended.

I won't get into specifics of any particular religion, but there are some doozies written in many of those books, scrolls, etc. that really are BONKERS today. Still, if one says they are [whatever], then they should still be following the dogma 100% without hesitation. That's faith, right?

/end rant

[KHONDAHM]

/begin rant

...and they DON'T follow the religious dogma 100% BECAUSE their common sense informs them it's bonkers. So, they make excuses blah, blah, blah and still claim themselves to be [whatever]. Really? If one finds it untenable to follow the dogma 100%, then one ought not claim to be [whatever] because one is simply fooling oneself or fooling other fools.

/end rant

[GT93]

Whoa KhonDahm. That's a very basic and uncharitable view of religious people for a sophisticated man. I suggest you do some reading. After all your children are at the edge of two very different cultural and religious traditions.

I don't consider myself a Christian but If I was I don't have to be a perfect Christian. A father doesn't have to be a perfect father. A husband a perfect husband. You gotta leave some space for human fallibility (and as you point out park the nonsense to one side). People who don't profess to follow an established religion also don't act consistently with their core beliefs and values all the time.

Religion can be seen as an expression of aspirations. Perhaps you should read up on the 5 precepts in Therevada Buddhism and how they should be used as aspirations. After all your kids say them everyday (in Pali) when they attend a Thai school. It's probably also useful to understand merit making in Thai culture.

How can you not interpret religious ideas? Even literalists have to interpret as the religion usually comes from a foreign language and culture. It's really important religious people have their brain in gear. Numerous religious teachers have different ideas. I suspect you are turned off religion as you think adherents don't have their brain in gear. But business people, politicians, athletes etc. can also act pretty dumb.

If one doesn't accept a religion as true, that religion might still be of value because it's useful (e.g. when someone dies). No one will accept 100% of what they read or hear about their religion. The same would be so for a scientist and his /her science (I'm not suggesting science and religion are the same).

Finally - of course there are heaps of whacko religious ideas written long ago (e.g. in the old testament) and not so long ago (e.g. Scientology). There have been and also still are whacko ideas in science. The world moves on and ideas and religions evolve. The world would be very ugly if they didn't.

Excuse me if I misunderstood you; your rant might have come from a visit by some Mormons, a glass or two of wine, or something awful you've just seen on the telly (e.g. the Fox channel).

I understand that you admire some people with strong religious faith. Who they are is partly from their faith.

[KHONDAHM]

Oh, my friend, you do misunderstand my posts. Those are MY personal opinions of what I think. I do not require nor do I expect others to live up to MY expectations. That's just me. I elected to be a devout atheist after a well informed journey which got me there. It was not by happenstance.

My kids will be whatever they choose to be, but no I would not tolerate them being indoctrinated. My wife is Buddhist and chooses not to follow the dogma 100%. That is her choice and I respect it. I think she should endeavor to be - and I accommodate, participate, and encourage her to be "more" Buddhist, but I would never press her about it. My daughter has chosen to follow my wife's religion (although I do suspect the Thai school system has influenced her). That was her choice and not mine or my wife's. If she chooses something else in life as she becomes more aware, then so be it. Likewise for my son. I would fully support my family however I could to realize what they seek by declaring themselves to be whatever they choose to be. That is how we do it in my family; and as a result, we have pretty much covered the major religions. We all get along accepting each other as we are despite that difference. It would be great if the rest of the world could do likewise.

Most "passive" atheist are very tolerant. We have our strong opinions and are not shy about vocalizing our opinions. However, we do not force our opinion on others. I can't seem to find anywhere on The Google evidence of atheists running amok killing others or going on missions to convert those who think differently. It's not my place nor is it my duty to indoctrinate or evangelize others. If someone disagrees with me, that's fine. Diversity is wonderful and makes us all stronger, in my opinion. I would never moderate my opinion and I encourage others to be vocal about theirs.

Just don't be a hypocrite about it.

I would love to discuss/debate points about various religions, but I don't think this forum is appropriate for that level of granularity and I do not profess to be an expertly trained theologian qualified to take the many different positions required to expertly argue for or against any "side". I'm just a regular guy with my own opinions.

[KHONDAHM]

Having addressed "me", I think a discussion of adherence to religious texts would be a worthwhile discussion.

I am of the opinion that since (in some religions) what was written was allegedly divinely inspired, then adherents should not seek to change or "reinterpret" what was written. Many of the texts were written millennia ago at a time much closer to its origin and carries within those words the truest meaning, intent, and objectives of said religion. In other words: written when the thoughts were fresh.

Being in my mid-40's, I could not accurately tell you how things really were when I was 2 years old. I was certainly there, but I do not have the capacity to accurately describe myself, my surroundings, or my behavior. If there were no film available, then someone else's written recollection (letters, for example) would likely most accurately capture me at that time. My elders' memory of me at that time might be the next most reliable. A verbal history of me 12 generations from now would be least reliable. However, those letters would still be the most reliable even dozens of generations from now.

It would be farcical to conclude that the words "He tore off the doll's head today." actually was a metaphor about how I was eager to free souls; or "He humped the dog today." was somehow a metaphor for how much I loved animals. Likewise, religious text (even after accounting for translators' interpretations), are a record of the beliefs, morals, and dogma of the religion as practiced at that time. It is too often simply more convenient to reinterpret the writings to conform to TODAY rather than conform TODAY to what was written long ago. In my opinion, one is no longer an adherent to the religion they profess. You can't read a passage allegedly directly from the mouth of the deity that says adherents must NOT evangalize and must NOT congregate and MUST pray in their prayer closet, and then say that's not really what it means. You can't read a passage that instructs one to cut off a theif's hand or throw a baby onto a pyre and then say that's really not what it means. If that is what the text says, then that is what one must accept about that religion. Whitewashing it is to reject it and thus would be blasphemy.

I'll pause here.

[Khun Paul]

Not having read the whole post, too damn long, I'll say this, in my readins about religion generally over time some 60 odd years, I found a quoteation attributal to budda, in which it says do not believe anything written or said , unless you have proven it and found it to be true, so one is always questioning the validity of what is written and said even that which was written or said a long time ago.
While I most definitely not a Buddist, i do recogniose a lot of common sense in that quotation. While so many people claim to be believers are not or those that are not, do in great times of angst and stress . religion is a way of helping people of all walks of life, how you interpret it is up to you, but using it to promote ones beliefs and inflict onto others has always been a problem for mankind over centuries and will I amsure continue to do so for the next few centuries until mankind either grows a pair or blows itself to kingdom come.

Here endeth the gospel according to Me.

[rjj04]

For those "believers" out there, please watch this and think honestly....

http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_arti ... istian-god

[jackspratt]

Here it is, direct from YouTube.

Well worth watching. =D>

[akwoodworker]

Whenever spirituality drifts into religion it becomes a cult

[rods1201]

THERE IS NO GOD. GET A LIFE AND GET OVER IT. ALL RELIGIONS ARE ONLY ABOUT TWO THINGS MONEY AND POWER!!!!