"The Sermon on the Map"-a Discussion of Religion

[KB_Texas]

KB......if I read your hypothesis correctly, people who have prayer genes pray and people who don't don't.

Heh, that was rjj's hypothesis parrot. The article I linked to was about stimulation of the brain, with involvement of the limbic system, which regulates how we feel about things emotionally, and what happens in the brain during religious experiences.

But I understand rjj's thought...though I do not agree there is a 'prayer' gene. I think to answer his question, one would need to get into sociology, where one was raised. I seriously doubt that we could have this conversation in SOME religions, (including Christianity up until a couple of hundred years ago) where to profess to be a disbeliever is not allowed or tolerated.

Heh, and I think you overgeneralize with what lottery winners say too. I am sure some say 'it is a miracle', while others say 'WOW!'. I might say 'I am very lucky to have beaten the 1 in 167,000,000 odds against it!' (IF I played the lottery...very bad odds)

KD...too bad more people don't read it as you do.

KB

[KB_Texas]

Wow! I won the lottery!!! I posted the 100th post in this thread.

KB

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Mathew 6:1-9 (supposedly directly from Jesus) pretty much says it all.

Verse 1-4: If you give to charity, shut up about it and don't run around boasting about how wonderful you are because you give to charity. In fact, don't even gloat abou it to yourself. Just give and keep it moving.

Verse 5: For Heavan's sake whatever you do, don't go around telling people about your faith. Me and my Dad hate it when people go to church or stand on the street corners evangalizing about faith. Suck it up and keep us to yourself. In fact...

Verse 6: Go pray in your closet. Yes, I said your closet. And shut the damn door, too. Me and my Dad can hear you just fine from there and you won't bother others with your faith in us.

Verse 7-8: Oh, and please oh please NO damn Hail Mary's or any other repetitive crap. Nothing annoys me more than some believer saying the same stuff over and over again as if that's goin to win them a spiritual cookie! Not! In fact, I'm Me and that means I already know what you are going to say or want anyway. As a matter of fact, so you don't screw up the prayer part, just say this prayer and keep it moving...

Verse 9: Lord's Prayer..

Somehow, this does not seem like an individual Jame's version of the Bible. 555+


Congratulations KB, you get to take the up escalator after you die!

[KB_Texas]

Congratulations KB, you get to take the up escalator after you die!

Whoa-whoa-whoa!!!! What do you mean ESCALATOR??? I thought you were given wings so you could fly????? :-"

KB

[bamakmak]

I believe, certainly like several others on this forum, that our universe was created roughly 13.5 billion years ago in the Big Bang and that it is just one of an infinite number of universes. So my question is this: Speaking in purely scientific terms, in this infinite number of universes and, therefore, infinite number of worlds and life forms, could there conceivably be at least one life form that originated or evolved into some type of non-physical form? A life form of pure energy, for example.

This is a sincere question and I’m hoping that someone will offer an opinion.

[KB_Texas]

I would think not. Without structure, energy is dissipated rather quickly, and is rather chaotic. How would a 'life force' of pure energy keep itself from reacting with fields, both electromagnetic and gravitational? e.g. how would it maintain itself as itself in the presence of other energy? (and yes, I realize this also is a limitation of physical existence. Humans without oxygen, or in a heavy gravitational field, will also discorporate.)

Here is a pretty good forum discussion on the subject:
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=452331

KB

[KB_Texas]

I went back to edit my post, but was denied.

If the universe/universes is as you postulate: an infinite number of them, then the possibility of anything happening, no matter how bizarre, is mathematically possible. If there are infinite universes, the laws of physics as we know them will not be the same, or even close, in many of them, so perhaps there is a universe with laws of physics that allow life forms to evolve to a free energy form. I do not believe it would be possible in our universe, with the laws of physics here. (of course, there is no proof that the laws of physics are constant across even OUR universe. We hypothesize it is so.)

KB

[bamakmak]

KB – I’m certain you are much better versed in this area than me. And the questions you raise are excellent. Perhaps there is no way that pure energy can not react with electromagnetic and gravitational fields. But perhaps there is. Electromagnetic and gravitational are two examples of known energy two us. Could there possibly be other forms of energy that we have yet to discover? Perhaps a type of energy that can maintain it’s structure.

I think that you would agree that scientifically, we have only begun scratching the surface of what is possible. Even a few short years ago, science was not even discussing things such as quarks, dark matter, anti-matter, wormholes, etc. Now it is not even debatable that these things exist.

If we agree that there are an infinite number of worlds and life-forms, and I think we do, than the possibilities boggle the mind. In an infinite setting, there are an infinite number of possibilities. The saying is true: if you place a chimpanzee in front of a typewriter and allow him to randomly punch the keys, given an infinite amount of time, he will eventually write “Hamlet”.

At the very least, I think it is a legitimate scientific discussion whether life can exist in a pure energy state.

[KB_Texas]

Could there possibly be other forms of energy that we have yet to discover? Perhaps a type of energy that can maintain it’s structure.

Yes, it is very possible, though getting a BIT harder in our universe. Dark Energy is a prime example, coming about as a seriously considered form only a decade or so ago. (off the top of my head...may be wrong)

I think that you would agree that scientifically, we have only begun scratching the surface of what is possible. Even a few short years ago, science was not even discussing things such as quarks, dark matter, anti-matter, wormholes, etc. Now it is not even debatable that these things exist.

Well, wormholes are still theoretical. It has been proven mathematically possible, but we've still never seen one that I am aware of. Unless you're speaking of quantum tunneling, which is a different beastie entirely. Anti-matter has been around over a century, but yeah, quarks are ~40 years old, and dark matter is about a decade IIRC.

If we agree that there are an infinite number of worlds and life-forms, and I think we do, than the possibilities boggle the mind. In an infinite setting, there are an infinite number of possibilities. The saying is true: if you place a chimpanzee in front of a typewriter and allow him to randomly punch the keys, given an infinite amount of time, he will eventually write “Hamlet”.

My exact meaning to my second post. I personally believe that there are many life forms in THIS universe. I am still grappling with the idea of a multiverse, but it sort of makes sense. I would not argue for or against it, but would be very interested in reading more on the mathematics that tend to hint at it. Same with multiple dimensions. There is abundant math that says it is so, and some of the more esoteric theories on the edge of physics pretty much demand them. But there is still no experiment, let alone proof, that gives us direction. I believe we'll get there (1), but maybe not in my lifetime.

At the very least, I think it is a legitimate scientific discussion whether life can exist in a pure energy state.

I think anything that challenges the mind is a legitimate question. The issue is, how would one design an experiment to test the hypothesis? Until you can do that, it is science fiction.

KB

(1) IF the religious crazies/government crazies/general crazies do not take over the world and reduce everyone to puppets, or worse yet, radioactive dust.

[semperfiguy]

As I reviewed all the posts to this thread I have observed recurring sentiment suggesting that any biblical or other historical accounts of God’s appearing to man are not to be trusted, and if there really is a God, then He should show himself to this generation so that we would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that God exists. Men who reject the notion God only reveals himself to those who are humble and contrite of spirit and come to him by faith, these are the ones who are always insisting that God show them a miraculous sign to prove His authority. This is the way it has always been and continues to this day. In Matthew 12 some teachers of religious law and Pharisees came to Jesus and requested the same thing of him, but Jesus replied “Only an evil, adulterous generation would demand a miraculous sign; but the only sign I will give them is the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights”.

Therefore, the bottom line is that God has already revealed himself and his eternal power by the death, burial and resurrection of his only Son, Jesus Christ! So, don’t expect for God to be appearing anytime soon by way of mass media, the appearance of the Virgin Mary at Fatima or by showing us the face of Jesus in a pancake in some secluded village in Mexico. Ain’t gonna happen! God will never give us the opportunity to come to Him by intellect or logic; it is through faith in his son, Jesus Christ, and that’s it…period! Jesus said in John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me”. That statement doesn’t lend itself to debate and suggestions that there is any other way, and one doesn’t have to run the references and analyze it against other passages to make sure that it isn’t being interpreted out of context. It stands the test alone and means exactly what it says. God makes things so simple, but in our unbelief we try to make the understanding of Him so difficult.

So, you might say “why should I have to believe something that happened over 2000 years ago and not be given the opportunity to see it with my own eyes”. The simple answer is “because if you saw it with your own eyes, then that would be fact and not faith”.

I remember when I was growing up my father said to me on numerous occasions “you listen very carefully because I am only going to say this one time, and I will not repeat it. And if you can’t remember it then you’d better write it down”. That is exactly what our Heavenly Father is saying to us today…”I’m only going to say this one time, and I have written it down so that there will be a record that can be passed on from generation to generation, and I won’t be saying it again”.

The problem with man is that he is so puffed up and haughty in his spirit that he knows nothing except rebellion against divine authority. He has gone the way of Lucifer who gathered one-third of the angels in Heaven and rebelled against the authority of God…because he wanted to be like God. We will never see God if the only god we see is ourselves! It’s God’s way or the highway…and that’s what makes a man defiant because he is so proud that he doesn’t want anyone telling him what to do or what to believe. Some men have pondered the question “if a tree falls in the forest and I didn’t hear the noise, does that mean that it really didn’t fall”? God “is”, and just because a man chooses not to believe doesn’t mean that God doesn’t exist. And if per chance He is who He says He is, then a man should examine His Instruction Book, the Holy Bible,…word for word, from cover to cover and over and over again in an attempt to discover the one true Living God before he labels God a liar. To be(lieve) or not to be(lieve)…that is the question (of the ages)!

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Well, that is not true. I am not asking for 'God' to appear to prove his existence, it just doesn't matter to me although it would be interesting if such an event took place.

A Canadian writer/producer, I think it was Ken Finkelstein, had a tv show a few years back in which Jesus returned. Not only did the Catholic church and the Protestants scramble to claim Jesus as their own, but so did the late night talk shows on the major networks. Eventually, Jesus did the rounds of the late night shows. Ratings were sky-high as Jesus performed miracles and told parables and so on. However, after a year or so ratings plummeted as the viewers grew jaded by the good news message. Soon Jesus was pounding the pavement without work. I can't remember how it ended, but the episode was hilarious.

[KB_Texas]

An interesting article very pertinent to this subject:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/1 ... 94010.html

KB