Khatin Ceremony

Thai Society and culture, Living in Thailand.
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parrot
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Khatin Ceremony

Post by parrot » October 27, 2013, 7:29 pm

Yesterday morning we went to the annual Khatin ceremony at Wat Nong Hua Moo (Pig Head Temple) just off the southern ring road (across from Maliwan). It's our favorite temple.....no hokey pokey, just simple monks living a very simple life. On a typical day, a few handful of followers may bring food....but today...there were hundreds....from all levels of the ladder.....very rich and very poor and plenty of in-between folks. Food galore.....all free....and all given with a smile, no matter if you were putting it in a big bag to take home, which is what many of the poor residents of the surrounding villages were doing. This particular temple sits on 84 rai of land.....and when I visit temples like this, I think about how lucky Thailand is to have so many temples......usually places where there is peace and quiet and an abundance of trees.
If you're not familiar with the Khatin ceremony, you can read about it at http://www.watsacramento.org/w-article-000-e.htm or just google 'khatin thailand'

Khatin ceremonies must be a kid's-dream-come-true.......7AM and all the free soda, ice-cream, snacks, and regular food you can eat! For the very poor, it might be the only opportunity during the year to eat as much as you want and then bring loads of food home. It's all part of the ceremony.....my wife visited temples celebrating Kratin when she was a little girl......moons ago.....and says things were pretty much the same then.
Rich and middle class folks usually sponsor the food booths......and the idea is to 'make merit'.....so it doesn't matter if the little kid is stuffing cookies in his pocket and coming back for more.....that's all part of the idea. I can't say I've ever seen an American ceremony like it.
If you haven't been to a Khatin Ceremony, you should check one out.......no obligation to bring anything or do anything.......although your better half will probably want to make a monetary donation to the temple for her afterlife.....perhaps yours as well.
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Khatin Ceremony

Post by mortiboy » October 27, 2013, 9:07 pm

Is it still ongoing? How long is the ceremony last?
Mai mee tahng !

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Laan Yaa Mo
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Khatin Ceremony

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » October 28, 2013, 2:26 am

Khun Parrot, I thought it was Kathin (กฐิน).

Nice photographs.
ເຮົາຈະລ່ວງພັ້ນຄວາມຕາຍໄປ່ບໍ່ໄດ

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Khatin Ceremony

Post by parrot » October 28, 2013, 8:22 am

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:Khun Parrot, I thought it was กฐิน.

Nice photographs.

It is! :D

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Khatin Ceremony

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » October 28, 2013, 7:07 pm

555+, I should have added that the ceremony is usually written 'kathin' and not 'khatin' in English. Thanks.
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Khatin Ceremony

Post by parrot » October 28, 2013, 8:34 pm

Since no one else seems much interested in the กฐิน ceremony, I'll continue to draw out the spelling controversy.
I freely admit I make it up when it comes to transliterated Thai. I can't think of anything that did more damage to my learning how to pronounce Thai properly than transliterated Thai. Suvarnabhumi just one example of how transliterated Thai doesn't reflect reality. A contributing factor is that when I first learned Chinese, I learned the Wade Giles form of romanization (I was in the business of 'listening' not reading....so learning Chinese characters wasn't all that important). At some point in my AF career, the powers that be decided that Pinyin was the better way to romanize....and it's true, Pinyin is a much better way.
And with that, I've decided there are better ways to transliterate Thai.....if I was doing the road signs, I'd at least kill the mi off the Suvarnaphumi.
And finally, just for grins (honestly, just for grins)....I googled khatin ceremony.......which got a respectable 7,050,000 hits. Then I googled kathin ceremony and got a measly 45,800. Any way I look at the results, the only way to spell the word is กฐิน.
Cheers

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Khatin Ceremony

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » October 28, 2013, 10:08 pm

Yes, I used the Wade-Giles system in high school, and when learning Cantonese. Some words make more sense in pinyin and some are better using the older system. Ch'ing Dynasty is easier than Qing for most English readers since the 'Q' without a 'u' throws people off, and they are not sure if it should be pronounced like a 'K' or not

I still like using Peking more than Beijing, and am happy that when you fly there the baggage tag is PKG or something like that. Gwangchow makes more sense to me than Guangzhou but that is because it is a Cantonese city.

You will note that in the article you provided the writer uses both kathin and khatin.
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Khatin Ceremony

Post by Frankie 1 » October 28, 2013, 10:41 pm

When using Roman script to refer to a non-European language, I think it's better to stick to the way Roman script is pronounced in most countries that use Roman script (the way native English speakers pronounce the Roman alphabet is on many occasions different from the regular pronunciation of Roman script).

Then there is the International Phonetic Alphabet as well.

If you stick to some basic rules, than it shouldn't be very difficult.

There are two main ways to pronounce the K, the T and the P.

These three consonants are unvoiced, which means that you don't use you vocal chords when you pronounce them.

All three of them can be pronounced aspirated (with a puff of air) and un-aspirated (without a puff of air).

In International Phonetic Alphabet, the un-aspirated variants are written as: /K/ /T/ and /P/

The aspirated variants are written as: /Kh/ /Th/ and /Ph/

In most languages that use Roman script the K sounds like ก. For instance the name of the German pop group Kraftwerk.

Only in English the pronunciation of K is aspirated and phonetically written like /Kh/ Here the h behind the K represents the puff of air that comes after the K.

The same goes for the T or Th, and the P or Ph.

Often I see transliterations like G in stead of K, Bp in stead of P, and Dt in stead of T. I don't know who invented that system, but it is phonetically and linguistically wrong. G, Bp and Dt are wrong transliterations because it suggests that these consonant sounds are voiced souns, which they are not.

Relying on Google for linguistic and phonetic reference? OMG.

Try to learn German, the way Germans pronounce the Roman alphabet. It's very easy for them to learn Thai because almost all consonant and vowel sounds are identical to Thai vowel and consonant sounds.

The main hurdle for native English speakers when learning another language is the odd way English people pronounce the Roman alphabet.

The transliteration of the word, according to phonetics, should be "Kathin"

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Khatin Ceremony

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » October 29, 2013, 12:22 am

Yes, I know about the pronunciation of 'kathin'.

I was making reference to pinyin in China in regard to the Qing dynasty. The 'q' is pronounced 'ch' as it is in the Wade-Giles system, and written, 'ch'ing'. according to Wade-Giles.
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Khatin Ceremony

Post by trubrit » October 29, 2013, 3:19 pm

Well in a rather belated attempt to salvage this topic, some photographs of the "K' ceremony at Wat Pha Nong San . , just over the main road from you Parrot. This is not a simple temple as you may gather from the crowds, as the senior Monk is highly regarded and known throughout the land .
katin 002.jpg
katin 007.jpg
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katin 016.jpg
katin 017.jpg
katin 021.jpg
katin 022.jpg
katin 023.jpg
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katin 023.jpg
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Khatin Ceremony

Post by trubrit » October 29, 2013, 3:26 pm

katin 033.jpg
Continued:
katin 027.jpg
katin 037.jpg
katin 053.jpg
And a special one for JS!
katin 011.jpg
katin 011.jpg (9.25 KiB) Viewed 1631 times
My wife and friend . :lol:
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Khatin Ceremony

Post by parrot » October 29, 2013, 3:49 pm

Thanks for that post, tb. Yes, that temple (วัดป่าหนองแซง) gets a crowd most every weekend.

I know the temple was planning some sort of retirement community just before you enter the temple gates (on the left hand side)......any chance you know the status of that project?

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Khatin Ceremony

Post by trubrit » October 29, 2013, 3:54 pm

parrot wrote:Thanks for that post, tb. Yes, that temple (วัดป่าหนองแซง) gets a crowd most every weekend.

I know the temple was planning some sort of retirement community just before you enter the temple gates (on the left hand side)......any chance you know the status of that project?
When I go again I will check for you . Do you want me to put your name down.? :lol:
Ageing is a privilige denied to many .

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Khatin Ceremony

Post by jackspratt » October 29, 2013, 4:48 pm

trubrit wrote: And a special one for JS!
katin 011.jpg
My wife and friend . :lol:
Phew....... it was such a relief to see a photo that didn't include the old, white-haired bugger in the blue, stripey shirt. :D

I guess the post was about:
the senior Monk (who) is highly regarded and known throughout the land
............. wasn't it? :-k

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