Marriage in Thailand

Thailand laws, tips and advice.
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harmonyudon
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Post by harmonyudon » March 24, 2012, 1:17 pm

@bobhelm,

Did not ask,but presume that after a full service civil-servant,for example 30-40years employement,
it does not matter WHEN you married after retirement. The height of the reduced widow-pension should be the same.

The retieree can die directly after retirement or at age of 100+,its the risk of the pensionfund. Date of marriage
is then not relevant..........if this is the case.......its still amazing :D :D :D

A widow-pension is like a (life)insurance.

If you for example your house is insured against fire/burning,does it
matter when the house is insured?? The height of the damage should
be the same after 1 day or 30years insurance.



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Post by Tafia » March 24, 2012, 3:21 pm

BobHelm wrote:The important thing that the pension administrator does not mention, that Tafia hints at, is how much the widows pension would be.
If married before the pension was taken then it normally is 50% of the employees pension. However most schemes usually have 'age related' clause even then. So if, for example you are 60 & marry a 25 year old then she will never be in the position of getting anything like a 50% pension even if you are still working at the time.
Marriage when in receipt of a pension almost universally applies an age versus percentage calculation.
Hence the 25 year old widow may well get a lifetime pension but the amount received could be so minuscule as to be meaningless.
I can only relate to my own circumstance as each case would be different.
I worked for the CC for almost 35 yrs. I retired in 2008 age 55. I was divorced at the time.
I married my current wife (Thai) in 2010. If I had died within 2yrs of retirement my widow would have got a lump sum of 5 times my pension as that time has now passed no lump sum is payable other than the 3mths full pension.
I made enquiries as I told you. (I wont use the exact figures) but currently should I die today she would receive 3 months of my current pension then 50% per month thereafter. That current value of my then widows monthly pension is around 34,400 THB per month. The index linking rise for April is 5.2% , the pension will rise to around 36,000 THB per month so you can see it keeps pace with UK inflation.
Im sorry I cannot comment generally, as I said each case is different and each company has its own policy, rules and regulations.
I do believe as Bob says there is a keep safe clause to stop us marrying teenagers on our death bed just to enable us to screw the pension provider for ever more.
I should add that should my widow re-marry she will lose the right to the pension.

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harmonyudon
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Post by harmonyudon » March 24, 2012, 3:36 pm

Tafia wrote:I worked for the CC for almost 35 yrs. I retired in 2008 age 55. I was divorced at the time.
I married my current wife (Thai) in 2010.
I made enquiries as I told you. (I wont use the exact figures) but currently should I die today she would receive 3 months of my current pension then 50% there after.
=D> =D>

How old was your wife when you married her,you were 57-58??
Im wondering if the age of the partner is relevant if according to the UK-laws you legally married a (mature/adult) woman.

A young widow can die early and an old widow can live long.

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BobHelm
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Post by BobHelm » March 24, 2012, 3:58 pm

harmonyudon wrote:Im wondering if the age of the partner is relevant if according to the UK-laws you legally married a (mature/adult) woman.
A young widow can die early and an old widow can live long.
You are confusing the laws of the country with the rules of a pension fund.
The pension fund is quite within its' rights to take into account the expectant period for which it will be likely to pay out a benefit to any particular party. Indeed it would be mighty derelict in its duty to other members of the fund if it did not.
Life is indeed a lottery however all pension funds & insurance companies employ actuaries just in order to calculate the expectant liabilities of their funds.
Statistically it is hugely more likely that a 25 year old will live longer than a 65 year old.

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Post by Tafia » March 24, 2012, 4:35 pm

harmonyudon wrote:
Tafia wrote:I worked for the CC for almost 35 yrs. I retired in 2008 age 55. I was divorced at the time.
I married my current wife (Thai) in 2010.
I made enquiries as I told you. (I wont use the exact figures) but currently should I die today she would receive 3 months of my current pension then 50% there after.
=D> =D>
How old was your wife when you married her,you were 57-58??
Im wondering if the age of the partner is relevant if according to the UK-laws you legally married a (mature/adult) woman.

A young widow can die early and an old widow can live long.
I will be 59 next month and my wife turned 44 in Feb.
You are confusing the laws of the country with the rules of a pension fund.
The pension fund is quite within its' rights to take into account the expectant period for which it will be likely to pay out a benefit to any particular party. Indeed it would be mighty derelict in its duty to other members of the fund if it did not.
Bobs right, the rules of the pension fund is paramount.
I have a mate whose pension fund paid out less to women on the basis they lived longer. That has now been overturned by the EU but instead of bringing the women up to the level of the mens payout they split the difference so the men lose out.
for example: men got 100 quid a week women got 50 quid on the basis they lived longer after the ruling instead of the women also getting 100 quid a week they just paid everyone 75 quid a week.

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rick
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Post by rick » March 24, 2012, 4:49 pm

Not sure of exact difference for a Civil service Pension, because last read about it years ago, but i think if your wife is more than 10 years younger than you they will make an actuarial reduction.But the old scheme had no rules about age.... but probably very few 60 year old Civil servants used to marry 25 year old bimbos, just wasn't done.... but times are different now!

They haven't cracked down on children's pensions yet, so get a girl pregnant when your 80, and they will support the kid until it is 18.

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Post by Tafia » March 24, 2012, 4:53 pm

rick wrote:Not sure of exact difference for a Civil service Pension, because last read about it years ago, but i think if your wife is more than 10 years younger than you they will make an actuarial reduction.But the old scheme had no rules about age.... but probably very few 60 year old Civil servants used to marry 25 year old bimbos, just wasn't done.... but times are different now!
Not sure and Im not aware as I'm only going on the information they gave to me, but Im sure there will be a clause somewhere!!
The figures I quoted were supplied by my pension provider after they received details of my marriage with dates of birth etc to update my pension details so can only assume 15 years is ok because thats the difference in age between me and the wife.

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Post by harmonyudon » March 24, 2012, 5:31 pm

BobHelm wrote:You are confusing the laws of the country with the rules of a pension fund.
I'll say it this way then:
is it allowed to marry a 12year old girl the uk?
is it allowed to kill your own husband in order to get a widow-pension.The pension-fund will, i think,
not honour the claim when its proven.

What i was trying to say is when according to the UK-law (and not for example muslim law in some muslim countries)
you are legally married the widow can claim the widow pension.

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Post by Tafia » March 24, 2012, 5:42 pm

What i was trying to say is when according to the UK-law (and not for example muslim law in some muslim countries)
you are legally married the widow can claim the widow pension.
It's already been said....It all depends on the policy and the rules that govern that pension provider. Each company will have its own set of rules.
Last edited by Tafia on March 24, 2012, 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by BobHelm » March 24, 2012, 5:44 pm

You still are confusing the laws of the land & the rules of the Pension Fund George.
While the rules of the Pension Fund cannot make something that is illegal under UK law legal. e.g. marrying a 12 year old. It can certainly impose regulations that restrict the rights of a members widow depending on her age.
The rules of the Pension Fund are there to protect the rights of all the members of the Pension Fund no one else.
A surviving partner has not been a contributor to the fund. To give them rights that adversely effects the rights of members who pay to contribute to the fund would be complete madness.

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Post by harmonyudon » March 24, 2012, 6:03 pm

Tafia wrote:It's already been said....It all depends on the policy and the rules that govern that pension provider. Each company will have its own set of rules.
Usually a pensionfund is subjected to the (basic)rules and regulations of the country where its based.
Even some acturial rules can also be directed by the government/politics and thus also subjected to the
laws & regulations of that country.

Your advice of letting the pension-fund confirm before taking any serious action is recommendable
for all pensioners in and especially outside their own country.

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Post by harmonyudon » March 24, 2012, 6:23 pm

BobHelm wrote:It can certainly impose regulations that restrict the rights of a members widow depending on her age.
Ofourse.... They can also dictate that you are not allowed to marry after reaching a certain age to claim a widow-pension and perhaps specific pensionfund's rules defining the height of the widow-pension depending on the duration of marriage after retirement etc..etc..

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Post by trubrit » March 24, 2012, 7:13 pm

Give up Bob your wasting your time . :-"
Ageing is a privilige denied to many .

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Post by harmonyudon » March 25, 2012, 6:43 pm

Perhaps the great TrueBrit can explain me why i'm (twice) confusing the laws of the land & the rules
of the Pension Fund with this remark of mine:
Im wondering if the age of the partner is relevant if according to the UK-laws you legally married a (mature/adult) woman.

A young widow can die early and an old widow can live long.

I meant in fact this what @rick says about old old scheme ,which is common for many pension-schemes in
many countries.
rick wrote:But the old scheme had no rules about age....
So TrueBrit ,how is it arranged in the new scheme? Please explain me?

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Post by Laan Yaa Mo » March 26, 2012, 7:01 pm

It is a bit different in Canada. For example, I have turned 65 and if married at the time of my death my pension from the high school where I work will go to my spouse. If I remarry, the pension will still go to my wife at the age when I turned 65. If she remarries after my death, she will still receive the pension until she dies.

The Canadian Government Pension and the Old Age Security Pension will go to whomever I name on my death. If it is a Thai wife living in Thailand, she will get both of these pensions until her death. It would amount to 2/3rds of the original pension.

In Canada, up to this point, the government does not care about the age of the marriage partners.
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Post by harmonyudon » March 26, 2012, 11:29 pm

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:The Canadian Government Pension and the Old Age Security Pension will go to whomever I name on my death. If it is a Thai wife living in Thailand, she will get both of these pensions until her death....
:shock: WOW.....amazing.....perhaps one of the best widow-schemes in the world and the height of that
widow-pension(s) is not age related....that's what im wondering about before


Are you talking here about work related pension cause of your work at a (Government)school ??

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Post by jimboLV » March 27, 2012, 11:47 am

It's interesting to see how the various countries handle this issue. The US has a somewhat racist policy in this regard, just like their immigration policies. If your wife is a resident of a predominantly white country, she gets a portion (I believe 50%) of your Social Security when she reaches age 65, no matter if you are dead or alive. If she is resident of a country that is not white (most of SE Asia and Africa) she gets nothing. There are a couple of exceptions like South Korea. I am surprised that this policy continues, especially now that we have a black president. But them's the rules.

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Post by harmonyudon » March 27, 2012, 12:43 pm

@jimboLV
Perhaps because there's NO treaty been concluded with those afrian/asian countries with regard to agreements on monitoring the right to benefits if you are refering to government old age allowances.

If the selection of countries is based pure on race...wooooow....... :shock: :shock: :evil: :evil: :cry: :shock:

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Post by maaka » March 27, 2012, 2:28 pm

just a side note , but it does have to do with overseas pensions, War penisions.
my father served in an Irish Regiment with the British Army, and then with the RAFin Burma, and had a War penision due to an injury..he passed just recently. Now the Veterans Service Office UK, are asking if we the family, want to apply for 2000 pounds to go toward funeral expenses, that is available to such old vets..so for those British Empire vets out there with a war pension, when you kick the bucket your Thai partner should be able to claim such costs me thinks..

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Post by trubrit » March 27, 2012, 3:48 pm

maaka wrote:just a side note , but it does have to do with overseas pensions, War penisions.
my father served in an Irish Regiment with the British Army, and then with the RAFin Burma, and had a War penision due to an injury..he passed just recently. Now the Veterans Service Office UK, are asking if we the family, want to apply for 2000 pounds to go toward funeral expenses, that is available to such old vets..so for those British Empire vets out there with a war pension, when you kick the bucket your Thai partner should be able to claim such costs me thinks..
Maaka. Its known as a bereavement benefit and all wives, or next of kin of UK citizens are eligible for it .No matter where they live .
Ageing is a privilige denied to many .

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