Mick's House Build

[JohnG]

They're absurd. Why "protect" just the bottom few rows? Why not all the tiles over the whole roof? ... and what about protecting the protection?
If the aim is to protect the facia board, you do so by putting the inside edge of the gutter under the tiles, as in Kopkei's photo.

....just to underline why protection sheets (drip strips or drip edges) are needed.

and another video showing the problem very well:



so this was my contribution to the discussion.
it's up to you how you have your gutters fittet.
but as a said before - thais don't pay much attention to drip strips - maybe due to lack of knowledge?

Come on, please tell me this is a wind up so you can see how many people are gullible enough to believe that these protection sheets / drips edges / drip strips go ON TOP of the roof tiles, as you've shown in your first post about this, where you somehow forgot to mention that this was a diagram and photo of the roof BEFORE THE SHINGLES / TILES WERE FITTED, rather than UNDER the bottom row as I've said repeatedly and as your videos very clearly show!!!

in addition to this, please make sure you will have protection sheets fixed as well. they are very important to protect your roof from getting wet, specially at times with heavy rain. these special protection sheets are often missed in thailand, but very helpful to protect your investment. see next pics.

csm_24022011_2055-003-RET_3397d48dcd.png

protectionsheet_074.jpg

As your videos show, and exactly as @Kopkei has shown in the photos of his gutter, these protection sheets / drip strips / edges go UNDER THE ROOF TILES!!!! They're nothing to do with "protecting the roof from getting wet" as you said, but they're there to stop wooden fascia boards getting wet and water being drawn up into a wooden roof frame.

Thais don't pay much attention to drip strips because they seldom need them: a) most roofs have a much bigger slope to them than the 1:12 or so shown in your pictures and so the tiles overhang sufficiently so that rain drips/flows straight into the gutter, b) Thais seldom use flexible asphalt shingle roofs, where drips strips are needed due to to the flexibility of the shingles which you don't have with tiles, and c) the guttering is usually designed to cover the fascia board up to the tiles, with little or no gap so that wind can only blow the rain back onto the gutter not onto the fascia board.

Where there is a need for a drip strip to protect the fascia or cover any gap, any decent Thai guttering fitter will fit drip strips or modify the gutter, exactly as they have done with @Kopkei's.

I'm still not sure if you're winding people up and trying to see how many people will be gullible / stupid enough to believe that drip strips / protection sheets go on top of the tiles and are to "protect the roof from getting wet", if you genuinely believe that they go on top and you simply haven't looked at the videos you've taken the trouble to link to, or if you simply haven't noticed that what you have posted is wildly misleading even though I've repeatedly pointed out that they go under the tiles rather than on top where it will have an adverse effect.

Either way, you've shown that some people here will believe anything, even putting something on top of their roof tiles to "protect the roof from getting wet"!!! I wouldn't have believed that was possible unless I'd seen it here, so thank you for that!

[BillaRickaDickay]

So to sum up, "Drip Strips" are useful when it comes to bodging up leaky roofs caused by poor design, old age or bad construction practice such as low pitched roofs, insufficient tile overhang into to the gutters and/or lack of Soffits.
Obviously not the case in Micks Construction as its a new build, has a typical Thai pitched roof a good tile overhang into the gutters and Soffits of adequate dimensions.
Too much knowledge can sometimes throw spanners in the works. PS never trust Promotional Video's...........
IMO.

[parrot]

I think it's fair to say the facia boards in most homes in Thailand today, probably for the past 10ish years, are cement board (Serpa, Chang, etc). They don't rot.

[mickojak]

Ok, Back to business
The sheetmetal crew came around and fitted my gutters today.
Done a pretty good job too.
They constructed them just as planned.
Highest point of gutter is in the middle of the centre, straight section, sloping down to the two inner corners, then sloping further towards the end of the roof and down pipes, perfect.
Plenty of brackets too.
Only two small problems, misunderstanding/confusion as usual.
1: I requested 125mm down pipes, he came out with two 90mm down pipes. He agreed to make two more on the job, so now I have two 90mm down pipes at each end. Hopefully will be enough to get rid of the water fast enough.
2: The quote of 8ooBht p/m was for their standard gutter, so all cost 1000Bht p/m, fitted with extra brackets and the new design.
So, time will test it out from now on.
Fingers crossed.
Mick

[JohnG]

So to sum up, "Drip Strips" are useful when it comes to bodging up leaky roofs caused by poor design, old age or bad construction practice such as low pitched roofs, insufficient tile overhang into to the gutters and/or lack of Soffits.
Obviously not the case in Micks Construction as its a new build, has a typical Thai pitched roof a good tile overhang into the gutters and Soffits of adequate dimensions.
Too much knowledge can sometimes throw spanners in the works. PS never trust Promotional Video's...........
IMO.

..... and don't forget, they go UNDER the last row of tiles!!

[JohnG]

Mick, looking at the size of roof which is actually feeding the gutters you shouldn't have a problem.

Just out of interest, is the rest of the roof unguttered, and where will your down pipes lead to?


The only rrason I ask is if the pipes don't actually lead to a drain off you don't have a problem - you could just leave the ends open, or cut the ends down slightly so that in the event of an overflow it will be at the ends rather than anywhere else.

[mickojak]

John,
Rest of the house in un-guttered at present.
Truth is, I have not really decided on what else exactly I am going to do yet.
I need to decide where the rain water tank will go and how much of roof to drain into it and also where to send all the other run-off water..

I am really just wanting to get to lock-up, (which is done), get kitchen built etc, so we can move in if we want.

The rest will happen over time as work will dictate my timef rames.
No hurry for me, just be really happy when the bulk of the build is finished.
Mick

[samuel]

...................

this is my last contribution to this discussion to clarify what i meant with protection sheets, drip strips or drip edges

video collected from YouTube - not mine.
in german but easy to understand.



no matter what kind of roof you have, they are very useful at gutters.
kind regards from a ex-professional plumber ...... me.
have a nice day and feel free to make it different.

[Gar]

Looks like a great house. I'll have to find this interesting thread again on the desktop instead of the phone (which will now be easier once I send this note.)

[JohnG]

One thought now that I've looked at your plans (I know it's a bit late, but maybe not too late).

Your kitchen area, and more importantly your cooking area, is right in the middle of the house between bedrooms and living area. Even if a lot of your cooking is done outside unless you're only into salads and meusli it may make the house smell. One option which could be done now before everything's finished would be to put plumbing and wiring into your #4 bedroom so it could be easily changed to a kitchen, with outside walls, extractors, etc IF you need it later.

If you don't need it so much the better, but it may be easier to do something about it now than later

[Barney]

One thought now that I've looked at your plans (I know it's a bit late, but maybe not too late).

Your kitchen area, and more importantly your cooking area, is right in the middle of the house between bedrooms and living area. Even if a lot of your cooking is done outside unless you're only into salads and meusli it may make the house smell. One option which could be done now before everything's finished would be to put plumbing and wiring into your #4 bedroom so it could be easily changed to a kitchen, with outside walls, extractors, etc IF you need it later.

If you don't need it so much the better, but it may be easier to do something about it now than later

Disagree JG with your thoughts to change the building after it is complete, bit silly to advise now.
To me the kitchen is in a good spot, adjacent to the outdoor entertainment area. Kitchen window opens onto this area to see what is happening with guests and kids playing and is also close to the sliding doors onto that same entertainment area to serve food or bottles of Leo and wine from the fridge.
If an exhaust fan unit is used above the cooking bench area then there is plenty of ventilation.

[mickojak]

Barney,
You are mostly correct.
Mainly, I have designed the house so that most of the time us adults will have a clear view of the swimming pool,(except while doing laundry)l.
Pools are incredibly dangerous for children, and it is not our child that I am worried about, as we will teach her to swim early, it is other kids who will come to visit that I'm concerned about.
Our pool will be very popular and I worry about that when I am away.
Also, anyone can knock their head while playing and become disorientated of unconscious.
Also, I designed the pool with maximum depth of 1.1m, so any adult around, (who can swim or not), will be able to walk into the pool to assist someone in trouble.
I spent many, many months playing around with this house design to get it right.
If the house smells of fresh bread, chocolate cake or curry stew, that's a better option than to risk a child's life in the pool.
That's not something that I want to live with.
I'm still happy with the current design..
Mick

[papafarang]

yes the terrible smell of fresh bread and cup cakes, chocolate brownies , better brew your coffee outside too. to be serious frying is the problem, but a good idea is a well built BBQ by the pool.

[Aardvark]

The smell of food around the house has always given me a comfy feeling. Maybe I'm just weird ....

[mickojak]

Papa and Aard,
You are both correct.
But, we will have an outdoor kitchen in the patio area just in front of the indoor kitchen.
95% of the cooking will be done there by my wife as I am happy to eat local food most of the time.
Mainly use indoor kitchen for toast, coffee, and some western cooking from me on special occasions.
Mick

[JohnG]

I wasn't suggesting changing the design! Simply suggested that adding a tap, drain and electricity outlets would give the option to change later IF you needed to.

A lot of people plan on using an outside kitchen, and we had one for 10 years - great when it was a nice day, but pretty desperate when it was late, wet, or the mosquitoes were biting!

As I said, its just a thought ...

[mickojak]

Hi John,
You are correct in what you say, but the patio will never get wet, (now), and it never gets cold, (except for a couple of days a year like we had last week) and I will have plenty of fans in patio area to get rid of mosquitoes, and have some big pots around with fish in them also.
I have installed plenty of power points for fans.

Like I said previously, I spent many months planning this house, (Including direction facing etc), to overcome all these problems and many more that I have found here in Thailand.

But, I am aware that maybe I have forgotten something or that my plans might not work.
So, I am happy to receive your ideas and suggestions, as I have a lot to learn and others following this thread might save a lot of time and money in future also.
mick

[JohnG]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising your plan but I really do think that having a kichen range in the middle of the house, even if you plan on all cooking being done outside, even in your absence, really could present problems for some people. If pool safety and supervision is an issue then have you considered that anyone cooking inside is going to have their back to the pool area rather than be looking out over it while they're cooking?

I'm not suggesting this for you necessarily but for anyone copying your plan, which I think
someone might be tempted to do as its a nice one, but if they do I think they'd be well advised to move the kitchen range from the middle of the house, where it can't realistically be used for general / Thai cooking without making the house smell as there's no way of getting the smells out with no outside wall, to the front of the house. The kitchen area would remain in exactly the same place but instead of cooking at the 'back' of the kitchen you'd be cooking at the 'front', at the window (where the '3.75m' is in your plan on the first page). Smells go out, particularly with an extractor over the cooker, you can cook indoors if you want to, still pass food and drinks out the window (actually more easily as you've got the worktop under the window), you've still got the same view out of the window over the patio and pool that you had before but now you've also still got that view when you're cooking, and you could use that 'back wall' for a breakfast bar if you want.

I'm not really suggesting it for you, as obviously the house is designed for your particular lifestyle, but I just think it would be worth considering changing the cooking range from the back / inside of the kitchen to the front, under the window, for anyone who is considering copying your design. Not everybody's wife is quite so happy to have their cooking banned from inside the house!

[JohnG]

I was going to say that cooking outside in the heat at the height of summer is likely to be more of a problem than doing so in the winter, but it just got too difficult on a mobile!

The problem is that its difficult to use a fan when you're cooking as to be effective the fan has to be strong enough to blow the flame out - even in the hottest kitchens they only have exractor fans. It isn't a problem in most rural Thai outside kitchens as there's enough ventilation, but that isn't the case with your patio, for obvious practical reasons.

I know people will cry 'bbq, cook outside by the pool, etc' and that's great on holiday, but it doesn't really allow for having to do it every day, three times a day, with Thais who hate being in the sun. That may not apply in your case, but I'm just thinking about anyone else who copies your plan who doesn't have such a co-ooerative wife!

Simply moving the cooker and sink from the back to under the window would solve all those potential problems for someone else.

edit: and you could actually still move the cooker now, if you wanted to, and put in an extractor fan, etc, while leaving the sink at the back with a large worktop / som tam bashing shelf or breakfast bar with no major construction involved. Just a thought!!!

[JohnG]

Meant to say 'co-operative wife', not 'co-ooreative wife', but the edit time limit beat me again!