Solar Power

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glalt
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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » November 29, 2017, 11:52 am

According to EP Solar, the maximum charging rates for gel type batteries is 14.2 volts with no equalization cycles. For AGM it is 14.4 volts and for flooded it is 14.6 volts. That's a pretty narrow range. You need a decent solar charger to properly charge the batteries. I'd hate to fry my batteries because the solar charger was not accurate enough.

The specs for the TransPower hybrid gel are the same as for the AGM batteries according to the battery specs.

glalt
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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » December 5, 2017, 12:22 pm

I just ordered two 6 volt 225 AH batteries. They are flooded batteries so I will keep them outside.

http://www.saraphanbattery.com/product/ ... %E0%B8%97/

Price including tax and delivery was 10,486 baht total. I had requested quotes from three battery suppliers and no replies. I got this quote back within a couple hours. Apparently those other companies don't answer emails in English. These T105 3K batteries weigh a kilogram more than the famous Trojan brand.

I could not justify paying more than 14,000 baht for a single 200 AH sealed battery from BSB.

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rjj04
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Re: Solar Power

Post by rjj04 » December 5, 2017, 1:21 pm

When it comes to these deep-cycle batteries, more mass is better.

On a Kg/Wh basis those batteries are 0.0215 Kg/Wh
vs the Volta VIN150 at 0.0294 Kg/Wh
with the Volta you'd get 38% more lead for about the same cost per Wh (or less).
The 3K batts don't give the "dry weight" spec so a little difficult to compare accurately.


Did you find some good reviews of these online?
Anyway, I'm sure they'll hold up a lot better than the Globatt Inva's I've got ;)

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rjj04
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Re: Solar Power

Post by rjj04 » December 5, 2017, 1:37 pm

Hmmm, that page says those 3K batts are only 4,200 THB per battery. So, you paid 2,000 THB more for tax and delivery?

glalt
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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » December 5, 2017, 3:26 pm

rjj04 wrote:
December 5, 2017, 1:37 pm
Hmmm, that page says those 3K batts are only 4,200 THB per battery. So, you paid 2,000 THB more for tax and delivery?
That price is for when you trade in your old batteries. Then there is 7 percent VAT and delivery is 400 baht. I was actually trying to find a deal on Volta but two stores did not reply to my emails. The third store had a battery name that I never heard of, no answer there either.

The few reviews on 3K batteries were good so I decided to take a chance on them. My FB batteries seem to be holding up well but they only sell 125 AH deep cycle. Trojan batteries have great reviews and these 3K seem to be nearly identical

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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » December 12, 2017, 2:47 pm

rjj04 wrote:
December 5, 2017, 1:37 pm
Hmmm, that page says those 3K batts are only 4,200 THB per battery. So, you paid 2,000 THB more for tax and delivery?
Did you have any luck finding another solar panel? My existing panels simply do not have enough juice to run the extra things I want to run and still keep the new 450 AH batteries charged. I need another 280 or 300 watt panel. Mono or poly as long as it has 72 cells for nearly the same voltage. I hate to pay for an Amorn overpriced panel.

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rjj04
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Re: Solar Power

Post by rjj04 » December 12, 2017, 7:53 pm

The wife has tried to contact the shop owner a few times, via @line and by phone, but he hasn't gotten back to her. In any case, I am not really in that much of a rush to buy one. I just hate that the price of solar panels hasn't budged much in Thailand over the last few years.

glalt
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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » December 13, 2017, 10:13 am

rjj04 wrote:
December 12, 2017, 7:53 pm
The wife has tried to contact the shop owner a few times, via @line and by phone, but he hasn't gotten back to her. In any case, I am not really in that much of a rush to buy one. I just hate that the price of solar panels hasn't budged much in Thailand over the last few years.
I just emailed a request for quote from;
info@abotrading.co.th

The boss is a farang and the last two 250 watt poly panels I bought from him were 6,250 each. That was a couple years ago. He is located in Chiang Mai.

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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » December 13, 2017, 5:07 pm

glalt wrote:
December 13, 2017, 10:13 am
rjj04 wrote:
December 12, 2017, 7:53 pm
The wife has tried to contact the shop owner a few times, via @line and by phone, but he hasn't gotten back to her. In any case, I am not really in that much of a rush to buy one. I just hate that the price of solar panels hasn't budged much in Thailand over the last few years.
I just emailed a request for quote from;
info@abotrading.co.th

The boss is a farang and the last two 250 watt poly panels I bought from him were 6,250 each. That was a couple years ago. He is located in Chiang Mai.
I got the quote from ABO already. The 250 watt panels are 4,500 baht each. The packing and shipping seems a bit expensive, total delivered plus VAT is 10,914 baht.

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vincemunday
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Re: Solar Power

Post by vincemunday » December 13, 2017, 7:32 pm

Crikey, I’m going through these posts and and to be honest I’m a bit mind blown, I’m just building a place and I’d really like to use solar power so this is a big ask because I’m sure there are a million combinations, but, what I’d like is a complete starter package suggestion that goes from panels to plug, can anyone help? It will only be for light usage but once again my knowledge is very limited so an indication of usuage would also be useful. Thanks.
“If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.” - Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Solar Power

Post by JR » December 13, 2017, 8:31 pm

vincemunday wrote:
December 13, 2017, 7:32 pm
Crikey, I’m going through these posts and and to be honest I’m a bit mind blown, I’m just building a place and I’d really like to use solar power so this is a big ask because I’m sure there are a million combinations, but, what I’d like is a complete starter package suggestion that goes from panels to plug, can anyone help? It will only be for light usage but once again my knowledge is very limited so an indication of usuage would also be useful. Thanks.
The man who rebuilt our system seems to know what he is doing as opposed to the first fiddlers. He does not speak English but lives not far away. Anyway there are some aspects you need to think about. Do you want a grid tied system or off grid? For sizing you need to figure how much power you need. How many watts do you need to run all your consumers at the same time? There is more but start there.

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rjj04
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Re: Solar Power

Post by rjj04 » December 14, 2017, 10:37 am

JR wrote:
November 28, 2017, 12:24 pm
rjj04 wrote:
November 28, 2017, 9:48 am
JR wrote:
November 27, 2017, 1:01 pm
I have Kolsat AGM 200ah and they seem much more stable than the flooded Volta 160 I had before. Kolsat were 11.300B.
I could not find the spec on these Kolsat so I used a Victron spec for AGM
https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/do ... ies-EN.pdf

Kolsat AGM 200ah vs Volta 150ah
-------------------------------------------------
THB/Ah ---------------------------> 56.5 vs 40 +40%
Cycle lifetime at 50% DOD--> 600? vs 2000 -70%
Expected Lifetime THB/KWh-> 3.9 vs 9.7 +248%

If Kolsat and the Victron have similar specs than the Kolsat would cost
248% over the expected lifetime of the battery.

Of course AGM has other advantages, mostly applicable to marine usage,
not residential solar homes.

If you are going to consume power at a fast rate (versus the 20hr rate typically
given) then AGM will perform better due to lower internal resistance. This also
reduces the power lost to keep the batteries at float charge. Really should
put those factors into the calculation above.

Also at 80% DOD the difference goes down to +225% but it could be more
as you might be able to reduce the total number of batteries required since
you can actually use more of the batteries you have. Still I think we are
talking at least a 100% higher lifetime cost.

Perhaps the expected cycles are a lot more on these Kolsat batts?
Do you have the spec?


A good write-up on battery types...
http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/01.Type/index.html

Another thing is that AGM can get fried pretty easily if your charger has some fault... whereas flooded would be less susceptible.
i think that you confuse AGM with Gel batteries in your last sentence. And you are comparing different things. A flooded deep cycle battery does not have much more life time than a VRLA. I said the sealed batteries seem more stable. The Voltas have lasted not two years and have caused many problems in that time with power drops and cut outs etc. I did not comment on the differencies in Ah and price, the latter naturally higher with more Ah. Goes without saying.
I have bought all the batteries I want, the point of my post is to try to help others decide on what to buy. I spent more than 20,000 THB on crap Inva batteries, so I'd like to try and prevent others from wasting their money likewise. In the case of the Inva batteries, looking at the specs probably wouldn't have helped, as (at least for my batteries) they seem to have some design flaw which makes them more susceptible to failure, apparently.

"And you are comparing different things. "
AGM and flooded are different technologies, obviously. In my post I was trying to normalize the data a little to see which might cost you less over time. KWhs delivered over the "expected" (hoped for?) lifetime of the battery.

"A flooded deep cycle battery does not have much more life time than a VRLA. "
Without the specification of those Kolsat batteries I was guessing at the numbers. If you could provide the cycles/DOD numbers (as you seem to own those batteries) that would be helpful. I'm certainly not sentimental about the Volta batteries, just trying to compare apples to apples with NUMBERS. We so often spout information without any data to back that up on these types of forums. If it turns out that the Kolsat AGM are a better deal financially for people that's great, let's try and prove it. After all, we could be talking about many 10s of thousands of THB spent! Of course, the numbers might be all just made up crap from the manufacturers but it's better than nothing I suppose :roll:

Personally, to me, the data shows that flooded are still better, from a financial perspective, than AGM, overall, for RESIDENTIAL solar power. I'm open to being "proven" wrong though.

"The Voltas have lasted not two years and have caused many problems in that time with power drops and cut outs etc."
This is interesting, sorry, but I don't recall you posting about these issues before. I guess I don't understand what you are saying, so the Volta batteries died early due to UPS type micro-cycles of the batteries? Can you be more specific? This is valuable information I think. Thx.

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rjj04
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Re: Solar Power

Post by rjj04 » December 14, 2017, 11:09 am

vincemunday wrote:
December 13, 2017, 7:32 pm
Crikey, I’m going through these posts and and to be honest I’m a bit mind blown, I’m just building a place and I’d really like to use solar power so this is a big ask because I’m sure there are a million combinations, but, what I’d like is a complete starter package suggestion that goes from panels to plug, can anyone help? It will only be for light usage but once again my knowledge is very limited so an indication of usuage would also be useful. Thanks.
First question to ask..."WHY do I want to install solar?" For financial reasons, backup for grid power issues here in LOS, to help the environment, etc? Sometimes, just a UPS and/or generator might be best.

If you are "just building a place", where would you place your panels? Shading, panel orientation to the sun, etc. It might be unlikely, but you might inadvertently build your place such that using solar power isn't practical, then you are SOL.

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rjj04
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Re: Solar Power

Post by rjj04 » December 14, 2017, 11:43 am

glalt wrote:
December 13, 2017, 5:07 pm
glalt wrote:
December 13, 2017, 10:13 am
rjj04 wrote:
December 12, 2017, 7:53 pm
The wife has tried to contact the shop owner a few times, via @line and by phone, but he hasn't gotten back to her. In any case, I am not really in that much of a rush to buy one. I just hate that the price of solar panels hasn't budged much in Thailand over the last few years.
I just emailed a request for quote from;
info@abotrading.co.th

The boss is a farang and the last two 250 watt poly panels I bought from him were 6,250 each. That was a couple years ago. He is located in Chiang Mai.
I got the quote from ABO already. The 250 watt panels are 4,500 baht each. The packing and shipping seems a bit expensive, total delivered plus VAT is 10,914 baht.
That seems like a good price for a 250W panel. You also get them from a farang managed company. Sounds good, I might email them about a 270W panel. The wife wants to take a trip to CM... hmmmm :)

glalt
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Re: Solar Power

Post by glalt » December 14, 2017, 12:00 pm

I have decided to order two more 250 watt panels from ABO. I am also going to order two more 3K T-105 batteries. As it is, I have only two small systems of which neither has enough power to do what I want. It's only money versus satisfaction. The two 250 watt 60 cell ABO panels that I am already using do a good job.

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