Will the EU succeed or fail?

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Lone Star
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Lone Star » June 27, 2018, 10:38 am

vincemunday wrote:
June 27, 2018, 10:36 am
The most important factor in the US is language you all speak Americanish and you share a common culture. We have to consider that most of Europe has spent thousands of years beating the livings out of each other, the cultures of each country are quite unique despite being neighbours.
Agree with that assessment too. History is not on the side of the EU either.


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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Doodoo » June 27, 2018, 12:09 pm

Vince
The video of the young lady who in her mind is an English/American Language Professor is GREAT

I don't think she has been outside that room where she is sitting for a long long time

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by christian_2013 » June 27, 2018, 1:52 pm

Is the EU being controlled to fail to make way for globalist world government?
We all know that our individual countries continually hand over it's sovereignty to the UN.
I'm sure most people don't deny the existence of the globalist's now, so that leads me to ask the question if the EU fails is this by design for the end goal of global government?

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by vincemunday » June 27, 2018, 2:46 pm

Sort of disagree with you here Christian, the UN has had some pretty bad press lately and it’s credibility has been knocked, I absolutely 100% disagree that we’ve handed our sovereignty over to them.
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Lone Star » June 28, 2018, 8:51 am

christian_2013 wrote:
June 27, 2018, 1:52 pm
Is the EU being controlled to fail to make way for globalist world government?
We all know that our individual countries continually hand over it's sovereignty to the UN.
I'm sure most people don't deny the existence of the globalist's now, so that leads me to ask the question if the EU fails is this by design for the end goal of global government?
SOME countries have handed over their sovereignty to the UN, but as vm stated, the UN is struggling in popularity lately; but they've been struggling in many ways for a long, long time. I view the UN as useless, toothless and biased in their globalist, socialist views. The US recently resigned from the hypocritical UN Human Rights Council, and I wouldn't care if there was a decision to leave the UN entirely.
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Doodoo » June 28, 2018, 9:08 am

I would hope that if the USA left the un they would pay the $1.3 Billion owe in dues prior to leaving

AS for leaving the Human Rights Council this is somewhat like quitting if you just don't like the game rather than buckling down and solving the issues

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Lone Star » June 28, 2018, 9:33 am

I like this new Salvini guy in Italy -- a LOT.

Salvini believes that the EU will struggle in its current form -- which is what this discussion is all about. Salvini doesn't deny what he sees with his own eyes.

Salvini isn't happy about other nations putting pressure on him to do what is not good for Italy.

“It’s not just about the budget for the next seven years. Next year will see new European Parliament elections. Within one year, we will see if a united Europe still exists or if it doesn’t.”

Salvini's views make him and his party a leader in Italian public opinion.

Salvini doesn't talk to Merkel about it. He talks to Seehofer, who shares his migration views. Although the two men disagree on the issue of sending migrants back from Germany to Italy, they agree on a harder stance on migrants generally and securing the bloc’s external borders. Salvini also isn't afraid to point out France's hypocrisy in the whole issue.

Greece and Portugal struggle carrying their financial weight in the EU. The Eastern bloc countries want their autonomy. Italy joins that autonomy fight. The UK bolted already. Merkel is unpopular and may be knocked off of her perch. If she's replaced with a Populist/Nationalist, the whole EU will be in trouble. It's a mess.
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When Soros says it's gone pear-shaped, the EU is doomed.

Post by Giggle » June 28, 2018, 10:22 am

From an interview with George Soros May 30, 2018, emphasis mine

"Billionaire investor George Soros believes that Europe is in the midst of a crisis and is at genuine risk of ceasing to exist as we currently know it, unless drastic changes are made.

"The European Union is mired in an existential crisis,"Soros wrote in a blog for Project Syndicate."For the past decade, everything that could go wrong has gone wrong."

Soros effectively argues that some in the bloc has moved so far away from its founding goals that the EU can no longer sustain itself in its current state.

"There is no longer any point in ignoring the reality that a number of European Union member countries have explicitly rejected the EU's goal of "ever closer union'."

The last 10 years have been crucial in this shift, Soros said:

"Since the financial crisis of 2008, the EU seems to have lost its way. It adopted a program of fiscal retrenchment, which led to the euro crisis and transformed the eurozone into a relationship between creditors and debtors. The creditors set the conditions that the debtors had to meet, yet could not meet. This created a relationship that was neither voluntary nor equal – the very opposite of the credo on which the EU was based.

"As a result, many young people today regard the EU as an enemy that has deprived them of jobs and a secure and promising future. Populist politicians exploited the resentments and formed anti-European parties and movements."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/ ... -the-brink

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by christian_2013 » June 28, 2018, 11:11 am

Lone Star wrote:
June 28, 2018, 8:51 am
christian_2013 wrote:
June 27, 2018, 1:52 pm
Is the EU being controlled to fail to make way for globalist world government?
We all know that our individual countries continually hand over it's sovereignty to the UN.
I'm sure most people don't deny the existence of the globalist's now, so that leads me to ask the question if the EU fails is this by design for the end goal of global government?
SOME countries have handed over their sovereignty to the UN, but as vm stated, the UN is struggling in popularity lately; but they've been struggling in many ways for a long, long time. I view the UN as useless, toothless and biased in their globalist, socialist views. The US recently resigned from the hypocritical UN Human Rights Council, and I wouldn't care if there was a decision to leave the UN entirely.
I totally agree Lone Star the UN is useless and I would support leaving the UN totally myself. But that will never happen for one important reason the power to veto any decisions made.
I have never said that we have handed over our sovereignty completely, it has been a gradual step by step slow march like cultural Marxism has been the long march, that's why you are only seeing push back of the UN in recent years BUT the NGO organisations are firmly in place, in all major cities throughout the world (even our host country) pushing the UN agenda with little pushback, most people don't even know what the Agenda's are i.e. Agenda 21 and Agenda 2030 not to mention the treaties that have been signed or human rights council.
I'm anti-globalist but despite the political theatre happening around us to distract us, the agenda's of the UN continue to move forward, it's not stopping.
China's one belt one road not stopping
As far as any leader in the EU pushing back against the migrant invasion good for them, but he who controls the money controls the world.
IMHO the EU is in a mess on purpose it's a controlled failure (chaos) everything happens for a reason. Out of chaos we will see a NWO immerging, where have we heard that before?

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Lone Star » June 28, 2018, 11:30 am

christian_2013 wrote:
June 28, 2018, 11:11 am
. . . it has been a gradual step by step slow march like cultural Marxism has been the long march, that's why you are only seeing push back of the UN in recent years
. . .
Yep. That's how Marxists work.
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by vincemunday » June 28, 2018, 4:11 pm

Gotta love Salvini, he’s relaxed the laws on self defence as a record number of Italians feel unsafe in their own homes and firearm license ownership is up 14%, the fight back continues.
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Lone Star » June 29, 2018, 5:56 am

Another new rock star in the EU against the destruction of cultural borders.

Chancellor Sebastian Kurz of Austria, after helping to organize the “Axis of the Willing”, is attempting to reshape the direction of the EU. He has been working with Germany’s Foreign Minister along with the leaders of Italy, Hungary, Poland and others. Kurz wants to seal off Europe from African migrants and restore normal border security between nations.

Very soon, Austria will be taking its turn in the rotating leadership of the EU.

Kurz has even been involved in global politics. He has tried to help the proposed summit between Trump and Putin, and Kurz has had nothing but praise for both leaders.
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by vincemunday » June 29, 2018, 8:01 am

The lurch to the right gathers pace -

Viktor Orban, the Hungarian PM since 2010 has issued a rather stark warning to the EU where he demands they they pass legislation to stop the immigration and begin repatriation. To be honest, this is what I've been dreading, whilst I agree with stemming the invasion of economic migrants, this is taking a whole new dire tone that really concerns me. Of course Merkel, Macron et al need to bear responsibility for this latest rise in Fascism, their reckless polices allowing the erosion of the cultures and religions of member states was always going to be a dangerous thing to do, let's hope Merkel resigns and the EU put some serious policies in place before we end up with a very, very bad, out of control response to this issue, ethnic cleansing happened in Eastern Europe in the late 20th century, who's to say it can't happen again?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/98 ... ktor-Orban
Last edited by vincemunday on June 29, 2018, 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Giggle » June 29, 2018, 9:41 am

It is time to revisit Samuel Huntington's "The Clash of Civilizations" (1996). Globalists and diversity-adoring leftists dismissed this political theory as unconvincing because it opposed their worldview. I read the book last year and it appeared to describe world events rather accurately. The decline and eventual dissolution of the EU is simply further evidence that Western power and influence is fading.

Read the Cliffs Notes here: https://www.beyondintractability.org/bk ... gton-clash

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by christian_2013 » June 29, 2018, 11:16 am

vincemunday wrote:
June 29, 2018, 8:01 am
The lurch to the right gathers pace -

Viktor Orban, the Hungarian PM since 2010 has issued a rather stark warning to the EU where he demands they they pass legislation to stop the immigrantion and begin repatriation. To be honest, this is what I've been dreading, whilst I agree with stemming the invasion of economic migrants, this is taking a whole new dire tone that really concerns me. Of course Merkel, Macron et al need to bear responsibility for this latest rise in Fascism, their reckless polices allowing the erosion of the cultures and religions of member states was always going to be a dangerous thing to do, let's hope Merkel resigns and the EU put some serious policies in place before we end up with a very, very bad, out of control response to this issue, ethnic cleansing happened in Eastern Europe in the late 20th century, who's to say it can't happen again?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/98 ... ktor-Orban
Your not being very clear here Vince?
Are you saying that if you oppose the invasion of migrants in to Europe and want them sent back now you are a fascist?
I did read the link you posted I read nothing that indicated fascism, maybe I missed something?
I did read that Victor Orban believed he had a mandate of his electorate to stop the invasion of immigrants in to his country as he said was the will of the people.
He also mentions that a new democracy needed to be reshaped in the European block to combat the migrant crisis.
As I don't see the European Union as a democracy in the first place maybe that is my confusion with your stance and concerns.
If it surprises you the migrant crisis is fuelling far right popularity then I'm surprised your surprised, is this not the idea behind creating a migrant crisis? Or don't you look that deeply in to why what is hapening is hapening?
Can you not see that the more governments promote open boarders, the more legislation they enact against hate speech the more the citizens free speech and freedom in general is taken away.
The whole migrant crisis is about the end game of countries to have complete control over it's citizens and to divide the population it's basic pyschology.
It's nothing to do with humantarian acts of kindness of politicians or diversity is our strength, these politician are pyschopaths they don't work for the people they never have.

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by vincemunday » June 29, 2018, 11:58 am

I think I'm being eminently clear, the line between forced mass repatriation and another serious "solution" has been crossed before and I don't just mean in Germany, in my eyes this is a very different game to closing the borders and discouraging further immigration economically. Such a move is extreme, I agree with what you say about the EU, it's not a democracy, how can it be when you can't vote out those that run it? The extreme right wing is rising and it's ideals are slowly becoming acceptable to the masses which to me at least is unacceptable and worrying.
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by christian_2013 » June 29, 2018, 12:33 pm

vincemunday wrote:
June 29, 2018, 11:58 am
I think I'm being eminently clear, the line between forced mass repatriation and another serious "solution" has been crossed before and I don't just mean in Germany, in my eyes this is a very different game to closing the borders and discouraging further immigration economically. Such a move is extreme, I agree with what you say about the EU, it's not a democracy, how can it be when you can't vote out those that run it? The extreme right wing is rising and it's ideals are slowly becoming acceptable to the masses which to me at least is unacceptable and worrying.
If the migrant crisis is not solved then in a 100 years they will be talking about the genocide of the European race that happened in this century. So can it happen again? it's happening now. That's the whole idea behind cultural Marxism! But as you say fascism is not the solution either.
Did you look at the Marrakesch declaration signed by the UK on 2nd May 2018? Looks to me like a free pass for the next wave of African migrants. Not much MSM coverage of this from what I seen.

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by tamada » June 29, 2018, 12:52 pm

christian_2013 wrote:
June 29, 2018, 12:33 pm
... Did you look at the Marrakesch declaration signed by the UK on 2nd May 2018? Looks to me like a free pass for the next wave of African migrants. Not much MSM coverage of this from what I seen.
You mean the Marrakesh Political Declaration? The Marrakesh Declaration is a totally different kettle of wombats.

"Discussions focused on strengthening cooperation in the fields of migration and development, including the prevention of irregular migration and strengthening of legal pathways."

It appears to be all about leveraging all legal methods of migration no?

Where's the 'free pass'?

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by tamada » June 29, 2018, 1:01 pm

christian_2013 wrote:
June 29, 2018, 12:33 pm

If the migrant crisis is not solved then in a 100 years they will be talking about the genocide of the European race that happened in this century. ...
"The mid 20th century racial classification by American anthropologist Carleton S. Coon, divided humanity into five races:
  • Caucasoid (White) race.
    Negroid (Black) race.
    Capoid (Bushmen/Hottentots) race.
    Mongoloid (Oriental/ Amerindian) race.
    Australoid (Australian Aborigine and Papuan) race."


No such thing as the European race but I think I know where you're coming from.

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by rick » June 29, 2018, 4:49 pm

Of course, Caucasoid includes arabs, some east Africans, and most from Indian sub-continent. I guess we hate our closest relatives ........

I would agree that the EU has expanded to fast and 'ever closer union' to quickly.

The financial problems within the EU are complex. Most of the countries which receive the highest subsidies from the EU are those who do not use the Euro (Greece and Portugal excepted), so they do control there own currencies .... does suggest that being in the Euro are mainly more successful.Socialism is the dominant political creed in Europe for the last 100 years, didn't hurt them in the 20th century. Globalisation is the problem - and globalism isn't Socialism, more akin to Capitalism. Capitalism/Globalisation has encouraged the transfer of wealth from the poorest to the richest, unsurprisingly the poor follow the money ....

There are many reasons why the EU is struggling, but most will not disappear by destroying it. The issue is that although the EU is far from perfect, destroying it will probably cause more problems than it solves.

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