Will the EU succeed or fail?

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Giggle
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Giggle » June 29, 2018, 5:44 pm

rick wrote:
June 29, 2018, 4:49 pm
Most of the countries which receive the highest subsidies from the EU are those who do not use the Euro (Greece and Portugal excepted), so they do control there (sic) own currencies .... does suggest that being in the Euro are mainly more successful.
That's a non-sequitur. It's probable that EU subsidies to non € countries have forestalled the financial dire straits afflicting the PIIGS -- all of which are stuck using the euro.
Socialism is the dominant political creed in Europe for the last 100 years, didn't hurt them in the 20th century.


That point is also highly debatable. Is Europe stronger, or in a better position now, than it was before WWI, vis-à-vis the rest of the world? It seems to me the US, Russia, (and China, if you believe the League of Wishful) have eclipsed the unadventurous and priggish Europeans. They suffered from their own miscalculations and appear to be suffering again based on the same stubborn inability to adapt.
Globalisation is the problem - and globalism isn't Socialism, more akin to Capitalism.
This is a very good point. What is "globalization" in a world which utilizes several different economic and social models? It appears to be the EU vision on a global, rather than regional scale. This reminds me of bankers worldwide, in 2007, who sought to socialize the risk (spread it across the population) and personalize the reward (secure it in their pockets). Globalization hucksters are equally disgraceful, whether they try to veil their ambition in climate change, poverty, or flimsy regional unions like the EU or ASEAN. "Just hand over your wealth, and we'll fix the fabricated emergency."
Capitalism/Globalisation has encouraged the transfer of wealth from the poorest to the richest, unsurprisingly the poor follow the money ...
Absolutely.
There are many reasons why the EU is struggling, but most will not disappear by destroying it.
I'm not sure anyone is trying to destroy it, it's shaking itself apart. Its leaders are pounding square pegs in round holes, and the confidence many countries had upon entering the club has turned poison. The Krauts hoodwinked Europe ... again.
The issue is that although the EU is far from perfect, destroying it will probably cause more problems than it solves.
We shall see.
Last edited by Giggle on June 30, 2018, 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by christian_2013 » June 29, 2018, 9:26 pm

tamada wrote:
June 29, 2018, 1:01 pm
christian_2013 wrote:
June 29, 2018, 12:33 pm

If the migrant crisis is not solved then in a 100 years they will be talking about the genocide of the European race that happened in this century. ...
"The mid 20th century racial classification by American anthropologist Carleton S. Coon, divided humanity into five races:
  • Caucasoid (White) race.
    Negroid (Black) race.
    Capoid (Bushmen/Hottentots) race.
    Mongoloid (Oriental/ Amerindian) race.
    Australoid (Australian Aborigine and Papuan) race."


No such thing as the European race but I think I know where you're coming from.
I would say that the mid 20th Century classification by Mr Coon is a bit out of date.
He was probably a white sis straight male so anything he had to say is probably irrelevant and cultural appropriation.
I'm sure that there are many members on this forum who have Eurasian children? I have yet to come across a form that required me to specify Caucasoid and Mongoloid even though the kids act like Mongoloids from time to time.
I know Tamada you are quite aware of what I was trying to convey, but thanks for the anthropology lesson :lol:

Regarding Marrakesh declaration Rabat process on Euro-African dialogue on migration and development signed on the 2nd May 2018 Poland and Hungary refused to sign the declaration as they believe behind all the fancy writing it is just another process the EU is trying to use to continue the mass immigration in to Europe by using legal mass migration methods. There were also references to UN Agenda 2030 for Sustainable Development adopted by the United Nations in 2015 in which States pledged to “leave no-one behind”

Breitbart reported today
Slovakia Backs Hungary on Migrant Crisis: ‘We Are Not Prepared to Suffer for the Mistakes of Others
Slovak prime minister Peter Pellegrini backed the stance of his Hungarian counterpart, Viktor Orbán, against EU-mandated migrant quotas and George Soros-backed NGOs.
www.breitbart.com/london/2018/06/29/slo ... es-others/

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Barney » June 29, 2018, 11:30 pm

Some guys called Blue Mink wrote exactly about this in 1969.
Even put their writings into song.

Some later even thought there were racist overtones.



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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by tamada » June 30, 2018, 3:52 pm

Barney wrote:
June 29, 2018, 11:30 pm
Some guys called Blue Mink wrote exactly about this in 1969.
Even put their writings into song.

Some later even thought there were racist overtones.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
An American cover version entitled "People Are Together" by soul singer Mickey Murray proved too radical for American radio and failed to get any meaningful airplay.

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Re: When Soros says it's gone pear-shaped, the EU is doomed.

Post by AlexO » July 1, 2018, 5:18 am

Giggle wrote:
June 28, 2018, 10:22 am
From an interview with George Soros May 30, 2018, emphasis mine

"Billionaire investor George Soros believes that Europe is in the midst of a crisis and is at genuine risk of ceasing to exist as we currently know it, unless drastic changes are made."
What drastic changes Mr Soro's. More immigrants. More power to the Elitist Banking Families. Cut welfare and reduce Human Rights. Solution please.[/color]

"There is no longer any point in ignoring the reality that a number of European Union member countries have explicitly rejected the EU's goal of "ever closer union'."

For "Ever Closer Union" read, more power to the unelected dictatorship who will control your lives as they see fit.

"Since the financial crisis of 2008, the EU seems to have lost its way. It adopted a program of fiscal retrenchment, which led to the euro crisis and transformed the eurozone into a relationship between creditors and debtors. The creditors set the conditions that the debtors had to meet, yet could not meet. This created a relationship that was neither voluntary nor equal – the very opposite of the credo on which the EU was based.

What this means is that everyone has realised the Euro really only suits the German and French economies.
There's a surprise.


"As a result, many young people today regard the EU as an enemy that has deprived them of jobs and a secure and promising future. Populist politicians exploited the resentments and formed anti-European parties and movements."

But the EU is encouraging Mass Immigration to take up non existent jobs. What is Populism, example please. Nobody is anti European but many are anti EU, big difference.
Fail for sure.

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by vincemunday » July 1, 2018, 6:34 am

Ah! Our dear, humanitarian Mr Soros who pretends he's had a pinch of conscience, perhaps he's beginning to regret his collaboration with the Nazis and wants to make amends.... yeah right....

He's throwing good money after (very) bad at the hard left and the remoaners, encouraging them to overturn Brexit and to maintain the current levels of migration in order to water down the identities and cultures of all countries which in turn will make them easier to manipulate.

Of course we are now going to get the conspiracy theorists say he's in cahoots with the Rothschilds et al, afraid not, Mr Soros is a whole new kind of evil, his own kind who only does something for his own and his managed funds to make huge sums of money, his passing will not be a bad thing for world peace.
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by glalt » July 1, 2018, 11:53 am

vincemunday wrote:
July 1, 2018, 6:34 am
Ah! Our dear, humanitarian Mr Soros who pretends he's had a pinch of conscience, perhaps he's beginning to regret his collaboration with the Nazis and wants to make amends.... yeah right....

He's throwing good money after (very) bad at the hard left and the remoaners, encouraging them to overturn Brexit and to maintain the current levels of migration in order to water down the identities and cultures of all countries which in turn will make them easier to manipulate.

Of course we are now going to get the conspiracy theorists say he's in cahoots with the Rothschilds et al, afraid not, Mr Soros is a whole new kind of evil, his own kind who only does something for his own and his managed funds to make huge sums of money, his passing will not be a bad thing for world peace.
You have very accurately summed up George Soros. He is indeed an evil man that the entire world would be better off without. Not only is he evil, he is dangerous because of the huge amount of money he controls.

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by vincemunday » July 1, 2018, 6:14 pm

This time it's the Bulgarian leader Boyko Borissov
asking for imprisonment and repatriation of immigrants, inch by inch the EU moves to the right. What's quite interesting is that he totally refuses to accept the EU master plan that was cobbled together a couple of days ago to save Merkel's fragile hold on government saying that he will not accept any refugees that were returned to his country because Bulgaria would be swamped as it's one of the major entry points to Europe. What now then Mrs Merkel?
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Lone Star » July 4, 2018, 4:44 pm



Interesting views. Still a mess.
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by tamarlane » July 6, 2018, 1:27 am

i am not sure how the britsh think after the chequers meeting tomorrow....the tories are looking the lose.....both ways.either soft or hard

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by vincemunday » July 6, 2018, 7:13 am

Theresa May will be out whatever the only question is when. My feeling is if she fails to commit to a full Brexit there will be a vote of no confidence and she will depart sooner rather than later, she’s misreading (or maybe ignoring) how the British public are feeling, the vast majority want her to get on with the deal, let businesses know where they stand and allow the commerce departments get out there and start striking deals, very few people actually give a toss about the Irish border issue, she and the EU are putting far too much emphasis on it and to scupper the whole deal because of it is inane stupidity. Mrs May was a useless Home Secretary and an even worse PM, the country will be well rid of her.

****NEWS FLASH**** Another fine example of Theresa May’s stupidity https://order-order.com/2018/07/05/may- ... n-cabinet/
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by vincemunday » July 6, 2018, 8:15 am

So, Mark Carney the useless Canadian import who was bought in by George Osborne to run the Bank of England has had to acknowledge that his dire predictions for the U.K. economy after Brexit was entirely wrong after he’s been forced to upgrade the forecasts time and time again, what he hasn’t acknowledged yet is that his economic predictions for the EU were completely overcooked and that after Brexit it’s like to take even more of a downturn, he will in time, assuming of course he hasn’t resigned by then, he’s due to retire soon anyway thank heavens.
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Lone Star » July 6, 2018, 8:24 am

vincemunday wrote:
July 6, 2018, 8:15 am
So, Mark Carney the useless Canadian import who was bought in by George Osborne to run the Bank of England has had to acknowledge that his dire predictions for the U.K. economy after Brexit was entirely wrong after he’s been forced to upgrade the forecasts time and time again, what he hasn’t acknowledged yet is that his economic predictions for the EU were completely overcooked and that after Brexit it’s like to take even more of a downturn, he will in time, assuming of course he hasn’t resigned by then, he’s due to retire soon anyway thank heavens.
Does Carney have anything to do with the global warming hockey stick hoax? 555555 Upgrading (changing) forecast data comes to mind. :)
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Doodoo » July 6, 2018, 8:34 am

LS
Please can you clarify what a Hockey Stick has to do with Global Warming and also what it has to do with the EU Succeeding or Failing?

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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by vincemunday » July 6, 2018, 12:46 pm

Things aren't looking great for monsieur Macron..

France, Kantar poll:

President Macron Approval Rating

Approve: 32% (-6)
Disapprove: 64% (+7)

Field work: 28/06/18 – 2/07/18
Sample size: 923
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Lone Star » July 7, 2018, 9:42 am

Hungary is making noise -- "Hungary First!"

Hungary's minister for foreign affairs and trade believes that the "America First" platform used by Trump has changed European political realities. Peter Szijjarto went on to say that Hungary respects the decision of the American People and Trump's endeavor to put his country first.

Szijjarto says that saying "Hungary First" was stigmatized as nationalist or even fascist, but Trump has changed all that.

“Saying ‘Hungary First’, your nation first, is such a refreshing feeling. So we like him saying ‘America First’. Who should say ‘America First’ if not the American president? And what should the American president say? What first if not America? For us, it’s obvious.”

Szijjarto explains, "We definitely understand his patriotic economic policy, because we run a patriotic economic policy as well. We like the change in approach, that he does not want to lecture all other countries in the world. He understood the American methodology must not, by definition, work in countries with totally different history, different approaches, different understandings. And, of course, we understand very well his policy on migration."

Szijjarto also made reference to Obama's efforts to influence the domestic politics of Central and Eastern European countries. He spoke approvingly of the reluctance of the Trump administration to do the same. "We are happy that those open attempts to interfere in our domestic issues, which happened during the Democrat administration, are not the case anymore."
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by papafarang » July 7, 2018, 10:47 am

Szijjarto says that saying "Hungary First" was stigmatized as nationalist or even fascist, but Trump has changed all that.

no he ain't , it's still nationalism , because one fascist says another fascist isn't a fascist is one weak argument :lol:
like Mussolini saying Hitler wasn't a fascist , he was a national socialist :lol:
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Lone Star » July 7, 2018, 3:28 pm

The English language is tricky for those whose reading comprehension suffers and/or suffers from a lack of understanding of the meaning of words.

"... stigmatized nationalist or even fascist ..."

These are two separate thoughts -- stigmatized nationalist is one, and fascist is the other.

At no point did Szijjarto say "Hungary First" or "America First" was not nationalism. Of course, those phrases are rooted in nationalism. What he DID say is that "nationalism" has been stigmatized as being bad. The definition of stigmatized means to be negatively characterized -- "as worthy of disgrace or great disapproval."

Szijjarto is merely pointing out that some members of the EU have stigmatized "nationalism" as being bad -- just as Trump-haters and America-haters have tried to do with the word.

Nationalism isn't bad unless taken to an extreme -- as with anything else. Nationalism is a patriotic feeling or based on patriotic principles and/or patriotic efforts. As in "America First." It is also an advocacy of political independence for a particular country.

Globalists and the pro-EU crowd stigmatize nationalism as being bad and "worthy of disgrace or great disapproval" because it's necessary for the EU to push that propaganda in order to keep all of the EU countries unified in giving up their sovereignty and autonomy. The EU must convince member countries to remove cultural/societal borders and eliminate their conservative values and traditions. In order for the EU to be successful, they must have control over everything, and that will not happen as long as member countries wish to preserve their heritage and borders -- and most importantly, their sovereignty.

Szijjarto's reference to fascism had to do with others labeling "Hungary First" as "fascism." Once again, just propaganda. Of course, nationalism is not fascism, nor is putting one's country first considered to be fascism. Unless the one making that accusation is creating their own definition of the words.

And yes, Mussolini was a fascist, and Hitler was a national socialist Nazi. So? That attempt at comparison between "Hungary First" and "America First" fails miserably.
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by Lone Star » July 8, 2018, 8:53 am

http://www.euronews.com/2018/06/29/ital ... rants-deal
Italy has welcomed the deal on immigration reached by European leaders at the Brussels summit. The country is the entry point for thousands of migrants and had threatened to veto the whole agenda if it did not get the cooperation it wanted on the issue.

"Italy is not alone anymore," Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte told waiting reporters. "Finally there is a common principle: migration problems must be faced in a complete manner. Solutions must consider internal and external issues as well as border controls. As stated in Article One, those who arrive in Italy arrive in Europe.".
I view this as somewhat of a setback for the globalists and the EU power brokers. A victory for any EU member seeking autonomy and sovereignty in any issue is not getting in line with their heads down and just moving along. There will be more bumps in the road.
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Re: Will the EU succeed or fail?

Post by vincemunday » July 9, 2018, 8:59 am

Looks like Theresa May has opted for the softest of soft Brexits and some of the ministers who wanted out have backed her, namely Gove and Boris. Unfortunately for her a few others have resigned, others have approached the conservative chairman for a vote of no confidence in TM and others are threatening to vote down the white paper. Of course now she's capitulated even further than anyone thought she possibly could the EU will almost definity be looking at further concessions striking while the proverbial iron is hot. The Conservative Party is now in tatters, split down the middle and people are cutting up their membership cards in droves, enter stage right, Farage will now make a return to mainstream UK politics, I'm not sure it will be with UKIP but he won't let this wishy washy version of Brexit happen without a fight. Interesting times.
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