Income Letter

Here is where we will consolidate all information about Thai visas and work permits (as they are closely related to the type and availability of your visa).
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papafarang
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Re: Income Letter

Post by papafarang » November 9, 2018, 6:37 am

Estimates of tourism receipts directly contributing to the Thai GDP of 12 trillion baht range from 9 percent (one trillion baht) (2013) to 17.7 percent (2.53 trillion baht) in 2016.[1][2] When including indirect travel and tourism receipts, the 2014 total is estimated to have accounted for 19.3 percent (2.3 trillion baht) of Thailand's GDP

oh yes pesky tourists bringing in 2.3 trillion baht and there's a few bad apples putting such a strain on the government resources, especially those stupid ones that get themselves killed on motorbikes or go out on dodgy boat trips, swimming
or even eating thai food.
I read that unpaid hospital bills came to just over $21,000,000. well rocket scientists will be able to work out that if you divide that by the 30,000,000 tourists that come here ,well you can work it out. thing is the government should cover it , it's a dangerous country due to poor safety standards...again just people in power shirking responsibility to guests in this country
the problem with compulsory insurance is this, they floated the idea of a $15 payment....$450,000,000 in the kitty to cover $21,000,000. how about a compulsory $1. and that's what we are talking about , this strain of a few cents
the world is not my home, I'm just a passenger

RLTrader
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Re: Income Letter

Post by RLTrader » November 9, 2018, 8:37 am

A couple of things
I have used the same pfd letter for the last 10+ years, just update with any new info. This time when getting it Notarize, he checked the info against my passport, then he ask me what this was, I was a little dumbfounded by the question, and answered.

So using the link the Embassy supplied, I download a new letter yesterday.
New letter
I also affirm that I receive a monthly income of $____________________ from sources in the United States. I am applying for a Thai visa/extension of a current Thai visa, and any assistance you can provide in this request will be greatly appreciated. The U.S. Embassy does not guarantee the contents of my own sworn statement. Under penalty of perjury, I assume full and complete responsibility for the veracity of the claims herein.
The red text is a new added sentence, but should have been a known fact to any American who signs a Notarized document.

I also ask if they would be doing these "OutReach" next year, his answer was yes, "people can get other doc's Notarized, renew passport, ect". Was going to say easier to mail for passport renewal, but said thanks & bye.
This was the longest "Time wise" that I have seen, and the number was normal, or as someone said, "Not a record".

When leaving, said to wife "last time I can can get this letter". Guess we will need to go to Lao, as in Move to.
She said she would check with cousin in Bangkok.

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FrazeeDK
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Re: Income Letter

Post by FrazeeDK » November 9, 2018, 7:50 pm

I've seen some Expat videos on the internet talking about what documents are required to substantiate monthly income for the retirement extension. In the video they supposedly had a translated copy of the original Immigration Police Order that lays out in detail certain documents as in a pension letter, a government document on how much social security you get and others. I tried to find a link to the "translation" but couldn't find it. I did find a link to Thai Immigration Police Region 1's website where they have a FAQ section which says:

2. Question : What is the required age of the alien wishing to stay in Thailand with the reason of Retirement?

Answer : For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows;
1. In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand.
- The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days)
- Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or
2.2 In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare
- Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;
2.3 In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

No listing of any other approved documents for monthly income in it.... Until clarification of the policy comes down that will accept perhaps a U.S. 1099R (Pension Tax document) or 1099S (Social Security tax document) or some other alternative looks like we're stuck with the rules as above. That is of course taking into consideration the last call is at the discretion of the Immigration Officer adjudicating your extension.

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq
Dave

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tamada
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Re: Income Letter

Post by tamada » November 9, 2018, 10:35 pm

FrazeeDK wrote:
November 9, 2018, 7:50 pm
... 2.2 In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare
- Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or; ...
And there you have it AGAIN. The embassy's that have stopped issuing income letters did so because they cannot VERIFY the contents per Thai Immigration's long standing, legal requirements. Having Consular staff copy and paste numbers from UK paperwork for the Britishers isn't a verification. The hand-on-heart malarkey for the Americans and Australians even less so.

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sometimewoodworker
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Re: Income Letter

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 10, 2018, 6:18 am

tamada wrote:
November 9, 2018, 10:35 pm

And there you have it AGAIN. The embassy's that have stopped issuing income letters did so because they cannot VERIFY the contents per Thai Immigration's long standing, legal requirements. Having Consular staff copy and paste numbers from UK paperwork for the Britishers isn't a verification. The hand-on-heart malarkey for the Americans and Australians even less so.
The embassy's that have stopped issuing income letters did so because they cannot Be bothered to do the work to VERIFY the contents per Thai Immigration's long standing, legal requirements.

My opinion is that the amendment above is probably a more accurate statement of the BE position and attitude towards the people who they should be looking after.
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Brian Davis
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Re: Income Letter

Post by Brian Davis » November 10, 2018, 7:50 am

papafarang wrote:
November 9, 2018, 6:37 am
.... I read that unpaid hospital bills came to just over $21,000,000 ....
I did mean to include unpaid hospital bills in my earlier post, suggesting that WAS one thing about farangs being a drain on Thailand. But from your post, the total is not really a significant figure, is it? (A CONFIRMED figure of 300,000 baht per day for a friend's intensive care in a top hospital here is, nevertheless, individually a bit frightening!) I wonder if your figure includes money owed to government hospitals, as I was under the impression that the private sector would ship one off there as soon as possible, once they discovered you hadn't the money to pay. :-"

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tamada
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Re: Income Letter

Post by tamada » November 10, 2018, 8:04 am

sometimewoodworker wrote:
November 10, 2018, 6:18 am
tamada wrote:
November 9, 2018, 10:35 pm

And there you have it AGAIN. The embassy's that have stopped issuing income letters did so because they cannot VERIFY the contents per Thai Immigration's long standing, legal requirements. Having Consular staff copy and paste numbers from UK paperwork for the Britishers isn't a verification. The hand-on-heart malarkey for the Americans and Australians even less so.
The embassy's that have stopped issuing income letters did so because they cannot Be bothered to do the work to VERIFY the contents per Thai Immigration's long standing, legal requirements.

My opinion is that the amendment above is probably a more accurate statement of the BE position and attitude towards the people who they should be looking after.
I am glad you inserted the word 'probably' in your opinion.

Deposit the lump sum, satisfy Thai Immigration's current requirements, stop lamenting that the sun has set on your own empire and enjoy your twilight years here as best you can.

LoneTraveler
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Re: Income Letter

Post by LoneTraveler » November 10, 2018, 8:16 am

Lone Star wrote:
November 8, 2018, 2:06 pm
1. There's nothing carved in stone yet. May not ever be, but things haven't completely filtered down to local immigration offices. We are not going to get many answers there yet. I've been and asked and had some Thai contacts ask for me. Lots of hems and haws.

2. Taking advice in here is good to know what everyone is hearing and experiencing, but it's still best to check on your own. We all know that whatever happens for you or me or someone else today, may not happen for any of us tomorrow -- or only for some of us. I sure as hell am not going to show up on renewal day armed only with what I hear on any forum. Get to your local immigration office and start greasing the wheels.

=====

When I first heard about this, I made contact with one of my police buddies of 10 years in Khon Kaen. He called his wife in BKK, who is an officer with Immigration.

This is what I was told.

The good falangs are suffering for the bad. This is an effort to get rid of falangs who can't afford to be here due to the economic strain that it has put on the private sector and government bureaus. Those who can meet the requirements will be allowed to stay. The rest will not be able to stay. This a purge. Plain and simple. There are also plans to be more thorough in investigating marriages to insure they are legit.

The money requirements as they stand today from my source is that 400,000 or 800,000 has to be in the account at least 3 months prior to renewal and remain in the account for 3 months after renewal (supposedly, to prove that it's yours and that you really have control over those funds).

That was it. When asked about monthly deposits/withdrawals to show a specific amount, nothing was indicated that this is something they are planning to use. Of course, that could all change tomorrow and might be changing today as I type this.

I plan to make my deposit about four months before renewal, and I'll go to work making some special deposit arrangements after that.

In the meantime, I plan to have an ongoing routine follow-up with Udon Immigration and my contact in BKK about every 30 days until I renew; and I would advise everyone to do the same until Immigration puts something in writing. But we know that even if something is in writing, the IO has final word on anything anyway. Anything in writing would help though. For those who have been through it, keep your options open. Be ready to adjust.

Good luck to all.
If funds need to be in account 3 months prior and three months after, makes it difficult to maintain a good standard of living if this is a good portion of one's pension. I hope in the future they will except monthly deposits of income rather than a lump sum being the only option.

fdimike
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Re: Income Letter

Post by fdimike » November 10, 2018, 8:21 am

My sentiments exactly!! Three embassies have already stated that they cannot certify income. Sounds to me like the only alternative is put the required funds in a Thai bank unless TI changes their requirements. I wouldn't hold my breath.
An ex-pat in the Land of Smile

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parrot
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Re: Income Letter

Post by parrot » November 10, 2018, 8:59 am

I've never been under the impression that my embassy is here to support me. I'd guess the expat community falls way down the list of important duties for the embassy.

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semperfiguy
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Re: Income Letter

Post by semperfiguy » November 10, 2018, 9:28 am

parrot wrote:
November 10, 2018, 8:59 am
I've never been under the impression that my embassy is here to support me. I'd guess the expat community falls way down the list of important duties for the embassy.
Parrot, I think it's always been a foregone conclusion that our government is not keen on its citizens living abroad and spending their US based income and other government payouts outside the US economy. No doubt they throw us in the same boat with the millions of illegal aliens that earn in the US and send their money back to their families outside our country. If they really cared about us they would find a way to allow us to use our Medicare entitlements abroad. Well-known and respected groups have been lobbying in Washington DC for years to get this reversed and our government has done nothing to help us.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf". - George Orwell

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sometimewoodworker
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Re: Income Letter

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 10, 2018, 9:37 am

tamada wrote:
November 10, 2018, 8:04 am
Deposit the lump sum, satisfy Thai Immigration's current requirements,
I have always had the needed amount, until SWMBO decided to buy a car and will be bringing my account back to the need amount well before the deadline for seasoning.

The income method was never an option for me due to the enormous magnitude of the OAP.
Jerome and Nui's new househttp://bit.ly/NJnewHouse

LoneTraveler
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Re: Income Letter

Post by LoneTraveler » November 10, 2018, 10:02 am

semperfiguy wrote:
November 10, 2018, 9:28 am
parrot wrote:
November 10, 2018, 8:59 am
I've never been under the impression that my embassy is here to support me. I'd guess the expat community falls way down the list of important duties for the embassy.
Parrot, I think it's always been a foregone conclusion that our government is not keen on its citizens living abroad and spending their US based income and other government payouts outside the US economy. No doubt they throw us in the same boat with the millions of illegal aliens that earn in the US and send their money back to their families outside our country. If they really cared about us they would find a way to allow us to use our Medicare entitlements abroad. Well-known and respected groups have been lobbying in Washington DC for years to get this reversed and our government has done nothing to help us.
They use to allow my health insurance to be used abroad however, the magnitude of fraud was overwhelming which forced the insurance company to end claims abroad. However, Bangkok Hospital seems to have the ability to get expats reimbursed for all or partial claims in the US.

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Brian Davis
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Re: Income Letter

Post by Brian Davis » November 10, 2018, 10:33 am

Much as I've moaned at the UK Embassy to be more helpful, I feel we have to accept proving expats income absolutely would be a time consuming exercise. As suggested, the fact that several Embassies have decided to give up on the income letter, it's not just a question of pressure of work at an individual Embassy. Then, of course, there's Thai pressure and the legal factor. I must say I'm a bit surprised at comments about the US Embassy, as I thought the service with e.g. Outreach as an example,particularly in 'falling over' to assist its' ex-serviceman (and that's NOT a criticism). was far more helpful than anything offered by the UK.
(With over 30 years administrative, local government service equating to Civil Service, I've offered my services to the British Embassy in retaining the income letter and my role would be to confirm, as it were, guaranteed income statements. Working from home (maybe Bangkok), UK salary, which would be more than covered by fees. I'm awaiting a reply. [-o< )

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Tracechain
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Re: Income Letter

Post by Tracechain » November 10, 2018, 11:17 am

Well, it was nice while it lasted...same as ACH money transfer via Bangkok bank in NYC.
Hit 'em hard, hit 'em fast, hit 'em with the one they don't expect, and just keep hitting.

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