Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by 747man » March 13, 2019, 9:15 pm

Sky News Breaking

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A spokesman for Ethiopian Airlines says no bodies have been recovered from the site of where its plane crashed on Sunday killing all 157 people on board........More than likely just burned in the fire as the Jet was FULL of fuel....

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by Lone Star » March 13, 2019, 9:18 pm

FrazeeDK wrote:
March 13, 2019, 8:59 pm
wait for the black box analysis on the Ethiopian aircraft. The Indo aircraft crashed due to the auto-anti-stall engaging and pitching the nose downward. It had been written up by previous pilots. The problem is not just with the software but with the training materials that didn't properly instruct the pilots on what to do.. Evidently flipping one switch would have disengaged the auto-anti-stall feature...

Correct.

I saw a cockpit video today. Two switches side-by-side disengage the auto anti-stall. Like you said, training or manual may have not addressed it well.
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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by pipoz4444 » March 13, 2019, 11:09 pm

Go back to the 1990's : 1991 United Airlines Fight 585 (Boeing 737-200) and then 1994 USAir Flight 427 (Boeing 3737-300) supposedly attributed to a sudden or uncontrolled movement of the Rudder, which Boeing chose to initially deny and ignore (nothing short of covering up) until the NTSB proved Boeing wrong several years later.

My view is that, I suspect Boeing know now and may have known for some time, that they had a potential for a problem, due to the System possibly trying to force the nose of the plane to pitch down. They probably assumed it was controllable in flight. Likely (and I say likely) the chose to ignore the increased in Risk to Plane & Pilot, when a plane is trying to take off and gain its height in those first 10 minutes. It"s a little bit harder for the Pilot to do two things at once and or recover, when he is still less than 2000 meters above sea level.

The ground radar flight path of the Lion Air Fight 610, in those first 6 minutes is interesting (if the one I saw is true), with the system supposedly forcing the plane nose to try to pitch down, some 26 times during that initial six minute take off-climbing period. If true, that is not normal and not something a Pilot should have to deal with at that time.

No doubt the truth will come out, if the Fight Data Black Boxes, from the EA Flight 302 is analyzed in the UK or Europe :-k =;

Just my 2 cents worth :D

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Last edited by pipoz4444 on March 13, 2019, 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by pipoz4444 » March 13, 2019, 11:19 pm

Singapore and Australia's Civil Aviation authorities have supposedly grounded /suspended the Boeing 737 Max 8 planes :-k :-k :-k

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by Bandung_Dero » March 14, 2019, 3:15 am

Grounded world wide! Both versions B38M & B39M.
Quote
"On Mar 13th 2019 the President of the United States signed an executive order effectively grounding all Boeing 737 MAX aircraft around the globe. Aircraft currently flying is permitted to continue to its destination, thereafter the aircraft will remain on the ground. The President said: "It's a terrible, terrible thing. Boeing is an incredible company, they are working very hard right now. Hopefully they will very quickly come up with an answer, but until they do the planes are grounded.""

Full story here:-
http://avherald.com/h?article=4c534c4a&opt=0

Edit.
Now ratified by the American FAA
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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 14, 2019, 7:50 am

Bandung_Dero wrote:
March 14, 2019, 3:15 am

"On Mar 13th 2019 the President of the United States signed an executive order effectively grounding all Boeing 737 MAX aircraft around the globe.
Now ratified by the American FAA
That was way too late and forced by virtually every other major country and group of countries already banning the planes from their airspace. Even American Airlines had already grounded it's own planes leaving no choice but to reverse the decision not to ground.
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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by saint » March 14, 2019, 9:36 am

sometimewoodworker wrote:
March 14, 2019, 7:50 am
Bandung_Dero wrote:
March 14, 2019, 3:15 am

"On Mar 13th 2019 the President of the United States signed an executive order effectively grounding all Boeing 737 MAX aircraft around the globe.
Now ratified by the American FAA
That was way too late and forced by virtually every other major country and group of countries already banning the planes from their airspace. Even American Airlines had already grounded it's own planes leaving no choice but to reverse the decision not to ground.
You gotta remember the US government does subsidise Boeing . Not in hard cash handouts as such , but by the inflated price they pay for Boeing warplanes .
Its certainly in the national interest to keep the plane maker solvent , thats why they were basically forced to make this decision .

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by tamada » March 14, 2019, 11:10 am

Up until yesterday, the FAA were standing by their claim that there's "no evidence" to support all these non-US airlines and foreign air administration entities grounding the Max 8. However, early yesterday Business Insider reported:

Pilots complained to authorities about issues with the Boeing 737 Max for months before the deadly Ethiopian Airlines crash

"Several pilots complained about Boeing 737 Max 8 planes ahead of Sunday’s deadly Ethiopian Airlines crash, the second crash of a Boeing 737 Max 8 in five months.

US records show that at least five complaints were lodged with federal authorities in recent months, with one captain even calling the flight manual “inadequate and almost criminally insufficient,” according to The Dallas Morning News.

The complaints were made in the Federal Aviation Administration’s incident database, which allows pilots to report issues about aviation incidents anonymously.


https://www.businessinsider.my/pilots-c ... sh-2019-3/

Looks like Boeing finally got the memo but seriously, they denied there was evidence while American pilots with American carriers had already filed complaints on their own hot-line? I guess nobody reads it or maybe they just weren't quick enough to purge the posts?

The FAA is much too much a case of the fox watching the chickens. Something akin to the debacle at CAAT, the Thai aviation regulator when they fell foul of ICAO rules on self-certification back in 2015? Took them almost 2 years to sort that shambles out. But that stuff only happens in corrupt, third-world banana republics.

Oh, wait...

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by pipoz4444 » March 14, 2019, 11:38 am

According to CNBC last night, Boeing were at the top of the financial list when/one of the biggest players in the Washington lobby donations, having spent US 15.1 Million lobbying to Congress and the Executive Branch each year, also according to federal records. I suggest they tried to call in the favors from those thieves in Congress, over the past few days

The President may have issued an Order, but my understanding (again from the media reports last night) was that it was The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) who actually made the decision yesterday to temporarily ground in the U.S, based on additional data/information gathered from one of those Satellites, on the Wednesday morning. Probably from of those Satellites that the US don’t have in the Sky?? “Over that Area =; [-( [-( [-( :-# :-# . Anyway its only temporary :confused: :confused: which means how long..................

The Ethiopian Flight 302, 737 Max 8, apparently
1.Had its last routine service on 14 February 2019
2.Was only 4 months old, having been manufactured in Oct 2018 and delivered in Nov 2018. This thing was F..n New, still with its plastic wrapping on :shock: :shock:
3.Was only 6 minutes into its flight after take-off, before losing radar contact

Ask yourself when was the last time Boeing had a plane go down that was under 6 months or even under 12 months old. :-k

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by tamada » March 14, 2019, 3:18 pm

I think Boeing and the FAA have a huge PR issue unraveling. When LionAir crashed, they retroactively issued a software patch and an edit of the manual with wording that suggested that pilots of a lower ability might not have picked up on the significance of the bolt-on MCAS system and its correct application in varying circumstances. Within maybe 48-hours of the Ethiopian crash, they were once again saying that software patches were forthcoming.

Even the FAA's post- Lion Air statements appear to tiptoe around the facts and the ugly bare truth.

Federal Aviation Authority said the AOA sensor "condition, if not addressed, could cause the flight crew to have difficulty controlling the airplane, and lead to excessive nose-down attitude, significant altitude loss, and possible impact with terrain." That would have been much more impactful (sic) if they had just cut to the chase, been less wordy and simply said "condition, if not addressed, could cause the airplane to crash."

If they had, maybe the airline managers and the general flying public would have sat up and paid attention but pretty sure the lawyers at Boeing would have been even faster at suing them for causing drop in shareholder value.

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by tamada » March 14, 2019, 3:21 pm

<double post>

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by pipoz4444 » March 14, 2019, 4:24 pm

tamada wrote:
March 14, 2019, 3:18 pm

Federal Aviation Authority said the AOA sensor "condition, if not addressed, could cause the flight crew to have difficulty controlling the airplane, and lead to excessive nose-down attitude, significant altitude loss, and possible impact with terrain."
"Impact with the terrain" =D> =D> =D> =D>

Why were they not more blunt and just say".............and you will be F..kn dead in 6-10 minutes ;) :lol: :roll:

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by stattointhailand » March 14, 2019, 10:08 pm

and "richardcranium" even managed to praise Boeing whilst announcing that they they were having the planes grounded [-X [-X [-X Money profit money profit money profit

Wonder where the thread suggesting that the lack on a trump e mail grounding the planes was putting thousands of American lives at risk :-k

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by saint » March 16, 2019, 6:05 am

All grounded untill May . Thats going to hit Boeing hard .
Mr Trump might want to rethink his budgets for 2020 , especially defence .
Those stealth bombers just got a lot more expensive .

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 16, 2019, 7:40 am

saint wrote:
March 16, 2019, 6:05 am
All grounded untill May . Thats going to hit Boeing hard .
Mr Trump might want to rethink his budgets for 2020 , especially defence .
Those stealth bombers just got a lot more expensive .
The news that
The FAA is planning to sign off on Boeing’s software fix for grounded 737 Max planes on March 25
Has just reversed some of the drop in Boeing shares.
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