Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

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sometimewoodworker
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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 14, 2019, 7:50 am

Bandung_Dero wrote:
March 14, 2019, 3:15 am

"On Mar 13th 2019 the President of the United States signed an executive order effectively grounding all Boeing 737 MAX aircraft around the globe.
Now ratified by the American FAA
That was way too late and forced by virtually every other major country and group of countries already banning the planes from their airspace. Even American Airlines had already grounded it's own planes leaving no choice but to reverse the decision not to ground.


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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by saint » March 14, 2019, 9:36 am

sometimewoodworker wrote:
March 14, 2019, 7:50 am
Bandung_Dero wrote:
March 14, 2019, 3:15 am

"On Mar 13th 2019 the President of the United States signed an executive order effectively grounding all Boeing 737 MAX aircraft around the globe.
Now ratified by the American FAA
That was way too late and forced by virtually every other major country and group of countries already banning the planes from their airspace. Even American Airlines had already grounded it's own planes leaving no choice but to reverse the decision not to ground.
You gotta remember the US government does subsidise Boeing . Not in hard cash handouts as such , but by the inflated price they pay for Boeing warplanes .
Its certainly in the national interest to keep the plane maker solvent , thats why they were basically forced to make this decision .

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by tamada » March 14, 2019, 11:10 am

Up until yesterday, the FAA were standing by their claim that there's "no evidence" to support all these non-US airlines and foreign air administration entities grounding the Max 8. However, early yesterday Business Insider reported:

Pilots complained to authorities about issues with the Boeing 737 Max for months before the deadly Ethiopian Airlines crash

"Several pilots complained about Boeing 737 Max 8 planes ahead of Sunday’s deadly Ethiopian Airlines crash, the second crash of a Boeing 737 Max 8 in five months.

US records show that at least five complaints were lodged with federal authorities in recent months, with one captain even calling the flight manual “inadequate and almost criminally insufficient,” according to The Dallas Morning News.

The complaints were made in the Federal Aviation Administration’s incident database, which allows pilots to report issues about aviation incidents anonymously.


https://www.businessinsider.my/pilots-c ... sh-2019-3/

Looks like Boeing finally got the memo but seriously, they denied there was evidence while American pilots with American carriers had already filed complaints on their own hot-line? I guess nobody reads it or maybe they just weren't quick enough to purge the posts?

The FAA is much too much a case of the fox watching the chickens. Something akin to the debacle at CAAT, the Thai aviation regulator when they fell foul of ICAO rules on self-certification back in 2015? Took them almost 2 years to sort that shambles out. But that stuff only happens in corrupt, third-world banana republics.

Oh, wait...

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by pipoz4444 » March 14, 2019, 11:38 am

According to CNBC last night, Boeing were at the top of the financial list when/one of the biggest players in the Washington lobby donations, having spent US 15.1 Million lobbying to Congress and the Executive Branch each year, also according to federal records. I suggest they tried to call in the favors from those thieves in Congress, over the past few days

The President may have issued an Order, but my understanding (again from the media reports last night) was that it was The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) who actually made the decision yesterday to temporarily ground in the U.S, based on additional data/information gathered from one of those Satellites, on the Wednesday morning. Probably from of those Satellites that the US don’t have in the Sky?? “Over that Area =; [-( [-( [-( :-# :-# . Anyway its only temporary :confused: :confused: which means how long..................

The Ethiopian Flight 302, 737 Max 8, apparently
1.Had its last routine service on 14 February 2019
2.Was only 4 months old, having been manufactured in Oct 2018 and delivered in Nov 2018. This thing was F..n New, still with its plastic wrapping on :shock: :shock:
3.Was only 6 minutes into its flight after take-off, before losing radar contact

Ask yourself when was the last time Boeing had a plane go down that was under 6 months or even under 12 months old. :-k

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by tamada » March 14, 2019, 3:18 pm

I think Boeing and the FAA have a huge PR issue unraveling. When LionAir crashed, they retroactively issued a software patch and an edit of the manual with wording that suggested that pilots of a lower ability might not have picked up on the significance of the bolt-on MCAS system and its correct application in varying circumstances. Within maybe 48-hours of the Ethiopian crash, they were once again saying that software patches were forthcoming.

Even the FAA's post- Lion Air statements appear to tiptoe around the facts and the ugly bare truth.

Federal Aviation Authority said the AOA sensor "condition, if not addressed, could cause the flight crew to have difficulty controlling the airplane, and lead to excessive nose-down attitude, significant altitude loss, and possible impact with terrain." That would have been much more impactful (sic) if they had just cut to the chase, been less wordy and simply said "condition, if not addressed, could cause the airplane to crash."

If they had, maybe the airline managers and the general flying public would have sat up and paid attention but pretty sure the lawyers at Boeing would have been even faster at suing them for causing drop in shareholder value.

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by tamada » March 14, 2019, 3:21 pm

<double post>

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by pipoz4444 » March 14, 2019, 4:24 pm

tamada wrote:
March 14, 2019, 3:18 pm

Federal Aviation Authority said the AOA sensor "condition, if not addressed, could cause the flight crew to have difficulty controlling the airplane, and lead to excessive nose-down attitude, significant altitude loss, and possible impact with terrain."
"Impact with the terrain" =D> =D> =D> =D>

Why were they not more blunt and just say".............and you will be F..kn dead in 6-10 minutes ;) :lol: :roll:

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by stattointhailand » March 14, 2019, 10:08 pm

and "richardcranium" even managed to praise Boeing whilst announcing that they they were having the planes grounded [-X [-X [-X Money profit money profit money profit

Wonder where the thread suggesting that the lack on a trump e mail grounding the planes was putting thousands of American lives at risk :-k

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by saint » March 16, 2019, 6:05 am

All grounded untill May . Thats going to hit Boeing hard .
Mr Trump might want to rethink his budgets for 2020 , especially defence .
Those stealth bombers just got a lot more expensive .

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 16, 2019, 7:40 am

saint wrote:
March 16, 2019, 6:05 am
All grounded untill May . Thats going to hit Boeing hard .
Mr Trump might want to rethink his budgets for 2020 , especially defence .
Those stealth bombers just got a lot more expensive .
The news that
The FAA is planning to sign off on Boeing’s software fix for grounded 737 Max planes on March 25
Has just reversed some of the drop in Boeing shares.
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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by saint » March 16, 2019, 8:52 am

So when people die , they cant fix it , and when it hits their profits , its fixed in days !!!!!

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 16, 2019, 9:04 am

saint wrote:
March 16, 2019, 8:52 am
So when people die , they cant fix it , and when it hits their profits , its fixed in days !!!!!
That sounds about right. How often have vehicles not been recalled because it was cheaper to pay off the victims, or families, if they found out that the vehicle was faulty and not fixed. After all it only going to cost a few million in one year from the billions in profit that the companies are making every year.

It is looking even worse, if you look back at November reports that virtually guaranteed that it was the MCAS system (and lack of pilot training, because it wasn't needed) that caused the Lion Air crash and that because of the crash that the plane and MCAS system was totally safe as pilots knew what to do.

https://nationalpost.com/news/heres-the ... s-grounded
A Boeing official quoted by the Wall Street Journal said this was done due [not informing pilots] to fears of “inundating average pilots with too much information.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-wit ... 1542082575
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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by saint » March 16, 2019, 10:04 am

Call me old fashioned , but im one of those people that when i get on the plane i expect the driver to know what hes doing , and how that plane works . What on earth made them think it was their call to withhold information that would of saved hundreds of lives .
Who was responsible for such an error of judgement , and will they ever be punished ?

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by stattointhailand » March 16, 2019, 2:11 pm

saint wrote:
March 16, 2019, 10:04 am
Call me old fashioned , but im one of those people that when i get on the plane i expect the driver to know what hes doing , and how that plane works . What on earth made them think it was their call to withhold information that would of saved hundreds of lives .
Who was responsible for such an error of judgement , and will they ever be punished ?
If and its a BIG if, they are, then I promise not to laugh out loud the next time a European/American/Aussie tells me Thailand is more corrupt than their country [-X

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by yartims » March 16, 2019, 7:05 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... shows.html

the dive screw was not set right

Graph shows something VERY wrong on doomed Ethiopian Boeing 737 MAX which pitched wildly prior to crash as screw-like device found in wreckage indicates plane was set to 'dive'

Flight tracking data for Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 shows troubling pattern
Swung between climbing, leveling off, and diving in minutes before crash
Similar pattern was seen prior to the other Boeing 737 MAX crash in October
Experts speculate the data indicates new automated anti-stall system to blame
Screw-like device indicated that the Ethiopia Boeing jet was configured to dive
The discovery prompted officials in the US to decide to ground Boeing jet flights
Ethiopian Airlines plane came down on Sunday morning killing all 157 on board

By Danyal Hussain For Mailonline and Keith Griffith For Dailymail.com
the only good Tory is a lavatory

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by pipoz4444 » March 16, 2019, 7:06 pm

saint wrote:
March 16, 2019, 8:52 am
So when people die , they cant fix it , and when it hits their profits , its fixed in days !!!!!
The Boeing Accountants have probably pulled their head out their A...e and approved the Overtime for the Software Nerds, in order to complete their software re-write in the next 9 days, or that one man who has been working on it for 5 months suddenly became 10.

I hope the Coffee is strong enough to ensure they get their Algorithms correct this time. :roll: :roll: :lol:

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by Udon Map » March 16, 2019, 10:18 pm

pipoz4444 wrote:
March 16, 2019, 7:06 pm
The Boeing Accountants have probably pulled their head out their A...e
Reminds me of this famous 30 second TV ad for one time Massachusetts gubernatorial candidate, Christy Mihos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-FgpqSj7iU

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by pipoz4444 » March 16, 2019, 10:53 pm

Udon Map wrote:
March 16, 2019, 10:18 pm
pipoz4444 wrote:
March 16, 2019, 7:06 pm
The Boeing Accountants have probably pulled their head out their A...e
Reminds me of this famous 30 second TV ad for one time Massachusetts gubernatorial candidate, Christy Mihos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-FgpqSj7iU
Yes pretty close, but it is what you get when you allow the Accountants (they call themselves Financial or Commercial Managers these day's) make the real decisions for a particular Business =; I am only speculating, but deep down so called cost control will have something to do with the issue. :-"

Remember that O Ring failure in the 1986 Challenger Space Shuttle: Was it Design or just going Cheap or Both :-k

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by pipoz4444 » March 19, 2019, 4:07 pm

I think you will see more of this over the next month and I doubt the Boeing 737 Max will be back in the air within a few more weeks, as first predicted

The FAA will have their wings clipped, before they will be permitted/allowed to lift the grounding of this plane =; [-X
https://interestingengineering.com/boei ... ties-mount

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 19, 2019, 10:15 pm

There is another rather disturbing report on Boeing and the 737 NG that I've just seen


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxxtzBTxGU

This is the comment
WARNING Boeing DID THE REPORT FOR THE FFA OF ITS NON COMPLIANCE 31MIN 02 SECOND IN THE INVESTIGATION THIS IS NOT FOR USA VIEWERS IT IS CENSORSHIP FROM US CITIZENS THIS IS FOR AUSTRALIAN VIEWERS, SBS news reporting of hazards with the 737 Boeing air crafts when made in 2002 reporting dangerous workmanship and not building to government standards and people who whistle blew got sacked. boeing aircraft have safety issues not dealt with.
There was also an investigation into the FAA certification that had started before the Ethiopian crash.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/p ... ond-crash/
Probe of Boeing 737 MAX certification began before second crash

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... air-crash/
Flawed analysis, failed oversight: How Boeing, FAA certified the suspect 737 MAX flight control system
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