Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by saint » March 16, 2019, 8:52 am

So when people die , they cant fix it , and when it hits their profits , its fixed in days !!!!!

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 16, 2019, 9:04 am

saint wrote:
March 16, 2019, 8:52 am
So when people die , they cant fix it , and when it hits their profits , its fixed in days !!!!!
That sounds about right. How often have vehicles not been recalled because it was cheaper to pay off the victims, or families, if they found out that the vehicle was faulty and not fixed. After all it only going to cost a few million in one year from the billions in profit that the companies are making every year.

It is looking even worse, if you look back at November reports that virtually guaranteed that it was the MCAS system (and lack of pilot training, because it wasn't needed) that caused the Lion Air crash and that because of the crash that the plane and MCAS system was totally safe as pilots knew what to do.

https://nationalpost.com/news/heres-the ... s-grounded
A Boeing official quoted by the Wall Street Journal said this was done due [not informing pilots] to fears of “inundating average pilots with too much information.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-wit ... 1542082575
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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by saint » March 16, 2019, 10:04 am

Call me old fashioned , but im one of those people that when i get on the plane i expect the driver to know what hes doing , and how that plane works . What on earth made them think it was their call to withhold information that would of saved hundreds of lives .
Who was responsible for such an error of judgement , and will they ever be punished ?

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by stattointhailand » March 16, 2019, 2:11 pm

saint wrote:
March 16, 2019, 10:04 am
Call me old fashioned , but im one of those people that when i get on the plane i expect the driver to know what hes doing , and how that plane works . What on earth made them think it was their call to withhold information that would of saved hundreds of lives .
Who was responsible for such an error of judgement , and will they ever be punished ?
If and its a BIG if, they are, then I promise not to laugh out loud the next time a European/American/Aussie tells me Thailand is more corrupt than their country [-X

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by yartims » March 16, 2019, 7:05 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... shows.html

the dive screw was not set right

Graph shows something VERY wrong on doomed Ethiopian Boeing 737 MAX which pitched wildly prior to crash as screw-like device found in wreckage indicates plane was set to 'dive'

Flight tracking data for Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 shows troubling pattern
Swung between climbing, leveling off, and diving in minutes before crash
Similar pattern was seen prior to the other Boeing 737 MAX crash in October
Experts speculate the data indicates new automated anti-stall system to blame
Screw-like device indicated that the Ethiopia Boeing jet was configured to dive
The discovery prompted officials in the US to decide to ground Boeing jet flights
Ethiopian Airlines plane came down on Sunday morning killing all 157 on board

By Danyal Hussain For Mailonline and Keith Griffith For Dailymail.com
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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by pipoz4444 » March 16, 2019, 7:06 pm

saint wrote:
March 16, 2019, 8:52 am
So when people die , they cant fix it , and when it hits their profits , its fixed in days !!!!!
The Boeing Accountants have probably pulled their head out their A...e and approved the Overtime for the Software Nerds, in order to complete their software re-write in the next 9 days, or that one man who has been working on it for 5 months suddenly became 10.

I hope the Coffee is strong enough to ensure they get their Algorithms correct this time. :roll: :roll: :lol:

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by Udon Map » March 16, 2019, 10:18 pm

pipoz4444 wrote:
March 16, 2019, 7:06 pm
The Boeing Accountants have probably pulled their head out their A...e
Reminds me of this famous 30 second TV ad for one time Massachusetts gubernatorial candidate, Christy Mihos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-FgpqSj7iU

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by pipoz4444 » March 16, 2019, 10:53 pm

Udon Map wrote:
March 16, 2019, 10:18 pm
pipoz4444 wrote:
March 16, 2019, 7:06 pm
The Boeing Accountants have probably pulled their head out their A...e
Reminds me of this famous 30 second TV ad for one time Massachusetts gubernatorial candidate, Christy Mihos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-FgpqSj7iU
Yes pretty close, but it is what you get when you allow the Accountants (they call themselves Financial or Commercial Managers these day's) make the real decisions for a particular Business =; I am only speculating, but deep down so called cost control will have something to do with the issue. :-"

Remember that O Ring failure in the 1986 Challenger Space Shuttle: Was it Design or just going Cheap or Both :-k

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by pipoz4444 » March 19, 2019, 4:07 pm

I think you will see more of this over the next month and I doubt the Boeing 737 Max will be back in the air within a few more weeks, as first predicted

The FAA will have their wings clipped, before they will be permitted/allowed to lift the grounding of this plane =; [-X
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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 19, 2019, 10:15 pm

There is another rather disturbing report on Boeing and the 737 NG that I've just seen


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxxtzBTxGU

This is the comment
WARNING Boeing DID THE REPORT FOR THE FFA OF ITS NON COMPLIANCE 31MIN 02 SECOND IN THE INVESTIGATION THIS IS NOT FOR USA VIEWERS IT IS CENSORSHIP FROM US CITIZENS THIS IS FOR AUSTRALIAN VIEWERS, SBS news reporting of hazards with the 737 Boeing air crafts when made in 2002 reporting dangerous workmanship and not building to government standards and people who whistle blew got sacked. boeing aircraft have safety issues not dealt with.
There was also an investigation into the FAA certification that had started before the Ethiopian crash.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/p ... ond-crash/
Probe of Boeing 737 MAX certification began before second crash

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... air-crash/
Flawed analysis, failed oversight: How Boeing, FAA certified the suspect 737 MAX flight control system
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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by Jing Jing » March 20, 2019, 8:25 am

Here is a video of the 737 Max taking off. The angle of attack is very extreme. In order to do this maneuver the MCAS has to have been turned off. Boeing convinced the FAA that this was a 737 like all the previous models and the pilots did not need any additional training. This no additional training was a selling point to the airlines. The engine size and placement cause the plane to nose up on takeoff. The MCAS was supposedly installed to counter this action. Boeing neglected to inform the pilots of this MCAS and how to control takeoff. Everyone had a hand in these disasters. The airlines want planes that fly themselves and hire a samlaw driver to baby sit!

https://youtu.be/RyeqeqSNSgQ

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by glalt » March 20, 2019, 8:59 am

The part that bothers me the most is the eyewitnesses reports. They saw smoke and parts of the plane falling off. Are the witnesses all wrong? I had thought the flight recorders would have explained this but so far, no information. If the plane came apart in the air, Boeing rightfully deserves to have their asses in a bind.

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 20, 2019, 10:52 am

Jing Jing wrote:
March 20, 2019, 8:25 am
Here is a video of the 737 Max taking off. The angle of attack is very extreme. In order to do this maneuver the MCAS has to have been turned off. Boeing convinced the FAA that this was a 737 like all the previous models and the pilots did not need any additional training. This no additional training was a selling point to the airlines. The engine size and placement cause the plane to nose up on takeoff. The MCAS was supposedly installed to counter this action. Boeing neglected to inform the pilots of this MCAS and how to control takeoff. Everyone had a hand in these disasters. The airlines want planes that fly themselves and hire a samlaw driver to baby sit!

https://youtu.be/RyeqeqSNSgQ
That was an empty plane with test pilots at an air show and has nothing to do with normal operations, it is designed to demonstrate the capability of the plane to climb at about 40 degrees

Here is another https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0FBLVGFQciM AIRBUS A350-1000 near VERTICAL TAKEOFF
And a 787 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u0atIGRJNHU


Takeoff is virtually always manual with all autopilot functions off so MCAS is not involved and neither is the placement of the engines, you can't takeoff without the nose up!

MCAS is designed for stall situations to make the Max perform in a way similar to previous versions and to counter the new bigger, higher engines to push the nose up if power is applied too quickly.

If you would like to understand more about the system then an independent commercial pilot has a good video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TlinocVHpzk
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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by Jing Jing » March 20, 2019, 3:00 pm

I have previously watched that videos several times. If you go to the 17.00 mark he talks about the larger engines and the affect they have on takeoff. Several news reports have also discussed this issue. Until the final report is written there are many items that are worth considering.

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Re: Another Country Grounds The 737-MAX

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 20, 2019, 9:51 pm

Jing Jing wrote:
March 20, 2019, 3:00 pm
I have previously watched that videos several times. If you go to the 17.00 mark he talks about the larger engines and the affect they have on takeoff. Several news reports have also discussed this issue. Until the final report is written there are many items that are worth considering.
If you are talking about the mentor pilot video then no he doesn't talk about the MCAS during takeoff nore does he talk about the takeoff. He is talking about the flaps up situation and they are down during takeoff. He talks about the very different stall recovery requirements, and why when approaching a stall the correctly functioning MCAS is extremely helpful

There has been no suggestion that the problem happened during takeoff just look at the flight data graph. It was during the climb out after takeoff.

Yes Boeing are almost certainly culpable, the fact that the MCAS system zeroed itself after each activity and could put the trim 2.5 degrees down each time was very probably the cause together with the lack of training of the pilots . No the engines and positioning did not cause any takeoff problems
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