Revoke Article 50 petition

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Lone Star
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Lone Star » March 29, 2019, 1:57 pm

Zico wrote:
March 29, 2019, 1:52 pm
. . .

It takes years to negotiate trade deals unless you want to look desperate and then end up getting screwed over. Who wouldn't take advantage of a country in the UK's position after a no deal Brexit?

That's not even considering what happens to existing trade with the EU. Leaving the EU with no deal is like a self imposed economic blockade.
The last 2 years could have been spent doing much of that.


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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Zico » March 29, 2019, 2:08 pm

Lone Star wrote:
March 29, 2019, 10:55 am

Nothing should be offered differently on either side.

Honor the vote of The People.

The original referendum was flawed because it put a binary choice to something which could have many outcomes.

If you had a similar referendum on legalising drugs a handful of nutcase MPs could insist that dealing heroin should be legal because they won't accept any variation on all drugs being legalised as per their interpretation of what the vote meant.

No moral and responsible elected representative would allow a bunch of idealogues to harm society like that.

And that's what's happening now.

There may be merits to legalising drugs and Brexit but not at the cost of harming wider society if done recklessly.

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Lone Star » March 29, 2019, 2:21 pm

Zico wrote:
March 29, 2019, 2:08 pm
Lone Star wrote:
March 29, 2019, 10:55 am

Nothing should be offered differently on either side.

Honor the vote of The People.

The original referendum was flawed because it put a binary choice to something which could have many outcomes.

. . .
The binary choice was to remain or stay.

The outcome from that choice has to be negotiated by the government after the vote is honored. There were two years for that organization and the logistics to be worked out. What has been happening is that the elitists in government didn't like the outcome of the vote and don't want to do the heavy lifting that The People ordered.

The voters were offered a binary choice as it was written. The voters chose.
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by JimboPSM » March 29, 2019, 3:48 pm

minimiglia wrote:
March 29, 2019, 10:40 am
Dont be so stupid, they are queing up to do busines with the UK
With the obvious exception of your backside, do you have a verifiable source for this?

.
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Zico » March 29, 2019, 4:27 pm

Lone Star wrote:
March 29, 2019, 2:21 pm
Zico wrote:
March 29, 2019, 2:08 pm
Lone Star wrote:
March 29, 2019, 10:55 am

Nothing should be offered differently on either side.

Honor the vote of The People.

The original referendum was flawed because it put a binary choice to something which could have many outcomes.

. . .
The binary choice was to remain or stay.

The outcome from that choice has to be negotiated by the government after the vote is honored. There were two years for that organization and the logistics to be worked out. What has been happening is that the elitists in government didn't like the outcome of the vote and don't want to do the heavy lifting that The People ordered.

The voters were offered a binary choice as it was written. The voters chose.
Again the elite are the minority like Charles Dyson, Jacob-Rees Mogg and Nigel Lawson who advocated for Britain to leave the EU then shifted their assets abroad when the vote unexpectedly went to leave.

Traitors the lot of them but the people of the UK shouldn't be hostage to a mistake made partly due to their lies while they jump ship and a avoid the consequences.

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Lone Star » March 29, 2019, 5:10 pm

Zico wrote:
March 29, 2019, 4:27 pm

. . .

Traitors the lot of them but the people of the UK shouldn't be hostage to a mistake made partly due to their lies while they jump ship and a avoid the consequences.
I agree with this paragraph if you're calling them out to honor the vote.

It doesn't matter who the specific elitists are or who specifically has betrayed the People. Any and all are bad regardless of party affiliation.

Honor the vote, do the heavy lifting and make the UK Great Again. Do the People's Work.

The UK isn't alone in this regard. Elitists and backstabbers are in every government body worldwide.
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by yartims » March 29, 2019, 11:10 pm

The rallies come as the Prime Minister mounted a failed last-ditch bid for the Commons to back her Withdrawal Agreement, which covers payment of the £39 billion to the EU, the Northern Ireland backstop and citizens’ rights, in today's vote.

The DUP and ERG were both set to vote against Mrs May today, torpedoing her already remote chances, with her Brexit deal rejected for a third time in today's vote.

Following this afternoon's Commons defeat for Mrs May, Britain is set to leave the EU on April 12 with no deal.
=D> =D> =D> =D>
Last night, EU chiefs insisted Britain must reopen negotiations to stop leaving without a deal, as reported by Express.co.uk yesterday.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... vorce-bill \:D/ \:D/ \:D/
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by yartims » March 29, 2019, 11:11 pm

french wine and cheese will be backing up and going smelly \:D/ \:D/
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by magpie73 » March 30, 2019, 2:08 am

zico the eu is undemocratic the eu needs us more than we need them were Germanys biggest trading partner in the eu so fcuk them if they don't want to give us the deal we deserve for propping up the eu over the years so stop whinning about the result if it had off went the way off remain I would off just got on with it not shouting for second referendums and the like

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by minimiglia » March 30, 2019, 7:31 am

JimboPSM wrote:
March 29, 2019, 3:48 pm
minimiglia wrote:
March 29, 2019, 10:40 am
Dont be so stupid, they are queing up to do busines with the UK
With the obvious exception of your backside, do you have a verifiable source for this?

.
Common knowledge

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by minimiglia » March 30, 2019, 7:34 am

Zico wrote:
March 29, 2019, 1:52 pm
minimiglia wrote:
March 29, 2019, 10:40 am
Dont be so stupid, they are queing up to do busines with the UK
Of course and the UK will be able to negotiate trade deals specific to its own interests if it is no longer part of a customs union with the EU.

But the day after leaving the EU with no other agreement in place all the UK will default to WTO rules on trade with all but an inconsequential handful of counties.

It takes years to negotiate trade deals unless you want to look desperate and then end up getting screwed over. Who wouldn't take advantage of a country in the UK's position after a no deal Brexit?

That's not even considering what happens to existing trade with the EU. Leaving the EU with no deal is like a self imposed economic blockade.

What utter rubbish

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Zico » March 30, 2019, 8:26 am

minimiglia wrote:
March 30, 2019, 7:31 am
JimboPSM wrote:
March 29, 2019, 3:48 pm
minimiglia wrote:
March 29, 2019, 10:40 am
Dont be so stupid, they are queing up to do busines with the UK
With the obvious exception of your backside, do you have a verifiable source for this?

.
Common knowledge
Absolutely.

Whenever a company looks like going bust there's a queue of vultures waiting to asset strip the place. It's common knowledge, as you say.

Greece was in trouble a couple of years ago but there was a queue to lend them money at extortionate rates, the UK included. Somehow this was painted as giving Greece money for free, which it very definitely wasn't. The term bailout is quite deceptive.

It's just bizarre that anyone would deliberately put themselves in a weak position as a disorderly Brexit will do. The vultures are circling already.

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Lone Star » March 30, 2019, 9:20 am

Zico wrote:
March 30, 2019, 8:26 am
. . .

It's just bizarre that anyone would deliberately put themselves in a weak position as a disorderly Brexit will do. The vultures are circling already.
Being a member of the EU has proven to be a "weak position" for many of its members.
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Zico » April 1, 2019, 11:10 am

Lone Star wrote:
March 30, 2019, 9:20 am

Being a member of the EU has proven to be a "weak position" for many of its members.
What countries are in a weak position due to EU membership and why?

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Lone Star » April 1, 2019, 11:41 am

Zico wrote:
April 1, 2019, 11:10 am
Lone Star wrote:
March 30, 2019, 9:20 am

Being a member of the EU has proven to be a "weak position" for many of its members.
What countries are in a weak position due to EU membership and why?
Start with one word: MIGRATION.

Every country having this forced upon them and suffering from all that migration brings. There is enough documentation worldwide of the damaging effects on member states of the EU. Crime, added burden on the tax base through entitlement programs, lost jobs of citizens going to migrants willing to work for less (which also causes a reduction in wages). Those fighting the EU migration policy have the greatest opportunity for sovereign survival of their borders, their culture and their economy.
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Zico » April 1, 2019, 12:16 pm

I agree with opposition to migrants who don't integrate.

However migration is a necessity for many countries and vital to certain regions in Europe because the indigenous birthrate is falling.

This is a major problem for a lot of developed countries including the US. Stop migration and the system will collapse within a few decades.

Even overtly nationalist and racist counties are encouraging migration to offset declining domestic birthrates.

Russia's birthrate rebounded in the last few years after years of potentially catastrophic decline because it has quietly been absorbing millions of migrants from central Asia.

If you eliminate migration the next step is euthanasing people who don't contribute to society, like the sick and elderly. You will reach a point where there are not enough workers to pay for them otherwise.

Be careful what you wish for.

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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by papafarang » April 1, 2019, 1:31 pm

lost jobs of citizens going to migrants willing to work for less (which also causes a reduction in wages).
you can't lose a job. it either exists or it does not, and how can you create a job if there is no one to fill it. capitalism is a bitch ain't it, it needs migrants.
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by Lone Star » April 1, 2019, 1:51 pm

Zico wrote:
April 1, 2019, 12:16 pm
I agree with opposition to migrants who don't integrate.

However migration is a necessity for many countries and vital to certain regions in Europe because the indigenous birthrate is falling.

This is a major problem for a lot of developed countries including the US. Stop migration and the system will collapse within a few decades.
The EU is forcing their members to accept migrants -- whether they integrate or not. All one has to do is look at all the "safe zones" and new laws restricting freedom of speech in these welcoming EU countries. Migration may be a necessity for some countries, but it doesn't require that their societies be over-run. Migration still creates the issues that I outlined in my previous post. Migrants aren't known for being productive contributors to the societies where they settle. And I'm not conflating migration with legal immigration. Those are two different things.

What "system" will collapse without migration?
Even overtly nationalist and racist counties are encouraging migration to offset declining domestic birthrates.
How do you define "overtly nationalist and racist"? What is your view of a country that wishes to protect its borders and not allow mass migration? How do you determine a country to be racist?
Russia's birthrate rebounded in the last few years after years of potentially catastrophic decline because it has quietly been absorbing millions of migrants from central Asia.
Russia isn't in the EU, are they?
If you eliminate migration the next step is euthanasing people who don't contribute to society, like the sick and elderly.
That is a huge stretch. Actually, quite unbelievable. A country that wants to defend its borders and protect its culture and economy and citizens from mass migration is going to start killing off the elderly and the sick. So you think that countries like Poland and Italy and Hungary are all of sudden going to start killing off the elderly and the sick. Man, oh man. Are you sure you want to stick to that theory?
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by papafarang » April 1, 2019, 2:31 pm

Lone Star wrote:
April 1, 2019, 1:51 pm
Zico wrote:
April 1, 2019, 12:16 pm
I agree with opposition to migrants who don't integrate.

However migration is a necessity for many countries and vital to certain regions in Europe because the indigenous birthrate is falling.

This is a major problem for a lot of developed countries including the US. Stop migration and the system will collapse within a few decades.
The EU is forcing their members to accept migrants -- whether they integrate or not. All one has to do is look at all the "safe zones" and new laws restricting freedom of speech in these welcoming EU countries. Migration may be a necessity for some countries, but it doesn't require that their societies be over-run. Migration still creates the issues that I outlined in my previous post. Migrants aren't known for being productive contributors to the societies where they settle. And I'm not conflating migration with legal immigration. Those are two different things.

What "system" will collapse without migration?
Even overtly nationalist and racist counties are encouraging migration to offset declining domestic birthrates.
How do you define "overtly nationalist and racist"? What is your view of a country that wishes to protect its borders and not allow mass migration? How do you determine a country to be racist?
Russia's birthrate rebounded in the last few years after years of potentially catastrophic decline because it has quietly been absorbing millions of migrants from central Asia.
Russia isn't in the EU, are they?
If you eliminate migration the next step is euthanasing people who don't contribute to society, like the sick and elderly.
That is a huge stretch. Actually, quite unbelievable. A country that wants to defend its borders and protect its culture and economy and citizens from mass migration is going to start killing off the elderly and the sick. So you think that countries like Poland and Italy and Hungary are all of sudden going to start killing off the elderly and the sick. Man, oh man. Are you sure you want to stick to that theory?
this is all silly , no one is forcing migration , all the EU countries signed up ,perhaps they should have read the small print. " A country that wants to defend its borders " it's the EU , there are no borders. Poland and Hungary are just states within the EU . Most migrants are EU citizens . Here is a question , would you consider someone moving from Alabama to Georgia a migrant and blame them for reduction in wages ?
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Re: Revoke Article 50 petition

Post by GT93 » April 1, 2019, 2:55 pm

Migration is often very positive. I say bring it on. Celebrate and welcome migrants.

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