insulation???

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kopkei
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insulation???

Post by kopkei » April 13, 2019, 8:07 pm

i have a friend whom has build a new home and has done some insulation and other things to supposedly keeping the home more cold during the hot season,(he does not want to use air cons) ,build with thermal blocks 20cm thick, he has a metal sheet roof with 2.5cm foam insulation with nice foil finishing , he also put stay cool on the gypsum board ceilings , and put in every room 1 or 2 air extracting ceiling fans ,and also extracting fans on the roof space (attic), thinking all this would make his home more live able in summer with all windows and doors open ? :shock: , wrong thinking ...all this has totally no use unless you keep all windows and doors shut , extracting air will have to be replaced by other air ....as the replaced air comes from outside when doors and windows are open it will also be hot air , so it is not really getting cooler , insulation to me is only useful if you hibernate with closed doors and windows and air con on , it will stay longer cool after shutting down the air con ,and even than it will be an expensive investment to win only a few degrees ...i have never believed in insulation against hot weather and after visiting his home i am convinced i am not wrong i still think it is a waste of money to win a few degrees, unless some one can convince me here with his theory about this .... ;)



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Barney
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Re: insulation???

Post by Barney » April 13, 2019, 8:39 pm

What was he thinking of when using ceiling extractor fans. You should ask him his own theory on that.
You don’t need convincing with any theories as you have stated your mind is totally made up that insulation is no good.
But, you are wrong.



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kopkei
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Re: insulation???

Post by kopkei » April 14, 2019, 8:51 am

well barney , please explain to me and others ,it is not only me with questions, (and convincing was a bad explanation, i am still willing to learn every day ..) how insulation can help to keep a home cooler when not using air con, and keeping all windows and doors open to air the home so it not get smelly ...thanks ;)
Last edited by kopkei on April 14, 2019, 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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kopkei
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Re: insulation???

Post by kopkei » April 14, 2019, 9:01 am

about the extraction fan theory of my friend , he has worked in many hot countries and saw this method used in Morocco , using extracting fans to pull the rising hot air to the attic and the attic fans pulling the hot air out of there
my only question on this system is ,what is replacing the extracted hot air ? same bloody hot air from outside? ,so nothing cooling down of the home happening , i am sure not only me but many people are interested in a way of keeping the home cooler as the outside temperature in these bloody hot times ,not having the need of air conditioners
thanks for any info on this .... ;)

minimiglia
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Re: insulation???

Post by minimiglia » April 14, 2019, 9:20 am

In these temps aircon is essential

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semperfiguy
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Re: insulation???

Post by semperfiguy » April 14, 2019, 9:25 am

I believe that the measures your friend has taken are excellent ones, but he still needs an A/C running in the room he occupies, and other doors and windows in the home should be closed. The thing that makes one feel hot and sweaty is the humidity, and the minute you open the doors and windows it will come in from the outside and you will cook.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf". - George Orwell

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parrot
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Re: insulation???

Post by parrot » April 14, 2019, 10:29 am

The closest thing I've seen to a successful natural heat extraction system was a house 2/3 of the way to Nongkai.....built of interlocking pressed cement......no mortar, no rebar. The living room had a vaulted ceiling with sliding windows at the top of the roof line. I've been there on several occasions and always found the living room, at least, comfortable.
From what I've read, you need cool morning temps to cool off the house....bring that air indoors early....then close off the house to hold the cooled surfaces. That idea works pretty well in Thailand in Dec/Jan when the morning temps are cool.....but certainly not on days like the past week where morning temps are already in the mid-80's.
https://inhabitat.com/building-modelled ... -zimbabwe/
If you want a real-life example of how insulation works......find 3 village noodle shops. One with a grass roof - coolest. One with a cement panel or uninsulated steel/tin roof - hottest. The one with the insulated steel roof is pretty close to the grass roof in keeping the baking heat from radiating down.
I'm of the opinion that if it's 95 outside and your doors/windows are open, it's going to be close to 95 inside. Our windows are closed all the time...and doors are shut after about 9AM. Even in the parts of the house where we never air con, the rooms are reasonably comfortable......not baking. In the parts of the house where we use ac, the ac cools immediately. Before we added insulation to our ceiling and our insulated steel roof, you could feel the heat radiate through the attic and through the gypsum ceiling. That's no longer the case.
Insulated steel roof, insulated ceilings, and keep the sun off of all windows/outdoor walls at all costs (you can do it with a one-story house). Even with all that, though, you'll need air con to keep cool and keep moisture (rainy season) to a minimum. t.i.t.

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BillaRickaDickay
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Re: insulation???

Post by BillaRickaDickay » April 14, 2019, 10:40 am

No Aircon? Basement rooms with eye level windows and a northern aspect, below ground is the way to go if you want a refuge from the heat.
He's got his little y-fronts and he's got his little vest, Chaz Jankel, 1998. Mash it up Harry.

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parrot
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Re: insulation???

Post by parrot » April 14, 2019, 12:59 pm

A few decades ago, when we first arrived, we knew a man in Nongwahsaw......he attempted a basement but it filled with water during the rainy season.
His second attempt at a cave was to cover the walls and ceiling of his bedroom with thick sheets of white styrofoam......the kind used for school projects. It seems to work well.....but after doing some googling on the subject and then testing a piece myself.....with a lighter......I decided I'd rather not die that way.

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sometimewoodworker
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Re: insulation???

Post by sometimewoodworker » April 14, 2019, 1:41 pm

Well 2 days ago the temperature was between 42 and 44 degrees according to Wunderground.
IMG_7235-2.jpeg
The house temperature was around 32 as we had the doors and windows closed, though in the roof area it is 35 which keeps the water tank there at a comfortable temperature for our showers

We keep the house from being smelly by having run-on extractor fans in the showers and toilets also by not cooking inside the house.

So no, using insulation and extractor fans will not keep the temperature down as low as shutting the hot air out while the insulation keeps the house from heating up too much.

If allowing the air to flow through it would have been 10 degrees hotter.
Jerome and Nui's new househttp://bit.ly/NJnewHouse

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Re: insulation???

Post by Marcosteffano » April 14, 2019, 1:47 pm

I used a system of reflective sheeting and then 2 inch polystyrene set in the middle of 4inch steel wall beams so there is an inch gap either side.ive even done the floor in the extension over the carport.although polystyrene is flammable the chances of a fire getting to it are minimal as I've used concrete fibre board on the walls and ceilings..the next thing I'm planning is to have light coloured roller blinds between the window glass and the curtains which are very cheap but reflect the light and also work as an insulator and probably better than double glazing.
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parrot
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Re: insulation???

Post by parrot » April 14, 2019, 1:51 pm

"The house temperature was around 32 as we had the doors and windows closed, though in the roof area it is 35 which keeps the water tank there at a comfortable temperature for our showers"

We lived in two rentals/1 year each downtown before we built. Both had water tanks outdoors....and the water was uncomfortably hot during the hot season.
One day we went to the Bamboo Resort in Nongsung.....the expat owner had a swimming pool and the water was refreshing. Back in those days, city water was iffy, and I asked the owner, while sitting in a large gazebo, how he ensured a reliable source of water. He told me, 'You're sitting on it', and he proceeded to life a large seat up to show a deep pool of water underneath the floor of the gazebo. The city water normally ran well at night.....the large tank filled.....and stayed cool throughout the day.
We had our builder put in a 2500liter brick/cement tank under our elevated porch. It's one of the best things we did........except for 2-3 months of the year when we use hot water heaters to shower, the rest of the year, we enjoy refreshing cool water.

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Re: insulation???

Post by bluejets » April 14, 2019, 5:33 pm

I'd be planting a few trees around the outside of the house to cool things down some.

Extractor fans in the ceiling space was a good move.

I doubt the 25mm of shiny paper would do much though even with the enclosed foam insulation.

Found this link which explains the processes etc. in a fairly easy to understand format.

http://www.yourhome.gov.au/passive-des ... ulation

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Re: insulation???

Post by glalt » April 14, 2019, 6:33 pm

In the evenings when the outside air cools down, running all the extractor fans will cool the house down quickly. During the day the house will stay cooler a lot longer with all the insulation. The attic extractors running during the day will also help keep the house cool longer. You wouldn't want to run the room extractors during the day because they will suck hot air in from the outside and defeat the purpose.

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FrazeeDK
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Re: insulation???

Post by FrazeeDK » April 14, 2019, 11:02 pm

our house has six inch thick insulation batting in the ceiling and is constructed of Q-Block. Our windows seal quite well and are tinted to keep out any outside sun generated heat.. We get up around 5AM so open all the windows doors and turn on the ceiling extractor fans. This pulls the cool morning air into the house and up into the attic.. I close everything up around 08:30 and the house remains tolerable throughout the day, staying around 27-29C inside when its 38+ outside.. If we're watching TV the TV will generate enough heat in the living room to drive up the temp a bit so that by 1500 or so we sometimes turn on the A/C... I'd say the largest heat generating device in the house is the refrigerator so having an extractor fan above that could help...
Dave

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Re: insulation???

Post by bluejets » April 15, 2019, 2:31 pm

With the frig, the heat from the condensor is the heat of compression plus whatever is extracted from the interior.
So basically whatever power comes from the power outlet is converted into heat.

Pretty much the same thing with the TV , AND with the whoppers getting around these days, probably more heat generator than the frig.

Good idea ducting the frig condensor heat outside however some are difficult to get access to. Some surround the exterior liner to stop condensation. Perhaps as you say, box it in and suck out the heat from there or maybe leave the frig outside. :D :D

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