Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

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Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by Earnest » February 15, 2020, 10:52 am

The US attorney general complains that Trump's tweets 'make his job impossible'. Trump says he hasn't meddled in any way but retains the legal right to intervene in criminal cases. Is he right?

Source: BBC

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51506976


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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by jackspratt » February 15, 2020, 10:57 am

jackspratt wrote:
February 15, 2020, 8:53 am
I see now the Bloated Orange Bullshiitter has decreed he has the legal right to interfere in the process of justice in the US, further diluting the boundaries of the separation of powers, and subverting democracy. :shock:

The man is a dangerous, narcissistic demagogue. :?

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by Earnest » February 15, 2020, 11:08 am

My apologies, I didn't see that one.
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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by FrazeeDK » February 15, 2020, 4:23 pm

Here's the ABC interview with AG Barr.. The portion where Barr objects to the Tweets is a very small portion of it.. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/transcr ... d=68975178
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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by Kenr6583 » February 15, 2020, 7:25 pm

Nowhere in the Constitution does it give him that right. But, what's anybody going to do about it?

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by GT93 » February 16, 2020, 1:44 am

I suspect Trump is still working behind the scenes to get Mrs. Clinton locked up. He'll still be looking for an official or officials who'll give it a go.

If she's ever charged, he'll then, of course, work on the judge. Particularly if it isn't a Trump judge. This is banana republic stuff.

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by Earnest » February 16, 2020, 9:03 am

Kenr6583 wrote:
February 15, 2020, 7:25 pm
Nowhere in the Constitution does it give him that right. But, what's anybody going to do about it?
So can we accept that the attorney general is part of the administration (the team)?

And rewind to a few days ago, where some on this forum were saying that the President has the right to fire if people on his team aren't working with him?

Is Barr a man who is trying to do the best job he can or is he someone who is not on message with the President?
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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by Kenr6583 » February 16, 2020, 9:22 am

Earnest wrote:
February 16, 2020, 9:03 am
Kenr6583 wrote:
February 15, 2020, 7:25 pm
Nowhere in the Constitution does it give him that right. But, what's anybody going to do about it?
So can we accept that the attorney general is part of the administration (the team)?

And rewind to a few days ago, where some on this forum were saying that the President has the right to fire if people on his team aren't working with him?

Is Barr a man who is trying to do the best job he can or is he someone who is not on message with the President?
1. Yes
2. True
3. Smokescreen. Barr's responsibility as DOJ is the enforcement of the law and administration of justice in the United States. But his loyalty is not to the United States, it's to the POTUS.

The POTUS does not have the legal right to intervene in the criminal proceedings. The Constitution gives him the right to issue a pardon, but does not give him the right to tamper with a jury or a judge presiding over a case. But again, who's going to stop him?

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by GT93 » February 16, 2020, 2:11 pm

Not Moscow Mitch or John Roberts.

Barr is probably sharper than John Mitchell, Nixon's Attorney-General, who ended up in prison. Unlike Mitchell he probably doesn't plot criminal acts with nutbars such as Gordon Liddy in the Attorney General's office.

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by pipoz4444 » February 16, 2020, 5:46 pm

I seem to remember Obama passing comment on a matter under determination by the Supreme Court, inferring what they should or shouldn’t do, when the Supreme Court was deliberating on a particular matter close to his heart, suggesting how they should determine it before the event. Akin to cautioning the Supreme Court, before it finalized its deliberations.

I think Trump should just take a step back, allow current court to issue its decision regarding the jail time for Roger Stone. Who knows, the Judge may even call a miss trial after the statement by the Jury foreperson. It appears to put the Judge (Amy Berman) in the spotlight now, before she can proceed to issue her ruling on sentencing. :-k :-k

From what I have read, Stone appears to have grounds for an an appeal in part based on Jury bias, that has became evident after the fact. I am not sure how the US Judicial system works and or which court will hear that appeal (if it eventuates) but if it does, it may end up in the Supreme Court. :-k :confused: :confused:

Regardless, after that, as President, Trump has the right to pardon people and or commute their sentences, at any time, so I believe. Just like Obama, George Bush, Bill Clinton and all the presidents before them, without rhyme or reason,

Barack Obama pardoned some 212 people and commuted the sentences of another 1,715, including
1. James Cartwright, a retired United States Marine Corps 4* General, he pleaded guilty to giving false statements to federal investigators in 2016 and was awaiting sentencing. Doesn’t this sound familiar, sounds pretty similar to what Flynn has been charged with

2. Chelsea Manning, a U.S. Army whistle blower convicted by court-martial in July 2013, sentenced to 35 years in prison for providing classified documents to WikiLeaks. Sentence commuted on January 2017.

3. Willie McCovey, a professional baseball player, pleaded guilty to tax evasion in 1995 and was pardoned in January 2017, along with Ian Schrager co-owner of a dance club, who also guilty to tax evasion in 1979 and received three and a half years in prison and a $20,000 fine, but was then pardoned in January 2017. Similar to that of Paul Manafort

George Bush pardoned and or commuted 78 people, including
1. Lewis "Scooter" Libby – Assistant to President George W. Bush and Chief of Staff to Dick Cheney was convicted of perjury in connection with the CIA leak scandal involving members of State Department who 'outed' CIA officer Valerie Plame, who was sentenced to 30 months in prison and fined $250,000. Libby received commutation of his prison sentence, not a full pardon in July 2007.

Bill Clinton pardoned and or commuted some 456 people. He actually pardoned 140 in the final hours of his Presidency, (a very busy day), including

2. Henry Cisneros, a Clinton's Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, who pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count for lying to the FBI in 1999 about payments to a mistress. Similar to the charges against Flynn

3. John Deutch, a Director of Central Intelligence, former Provost and University Professor, MIT, who agreed to plead guilty to a misdemeanor for mishandling government secrets. President Clinton pardoned him in his last day in office, two days before the Justice Department could file the case against him.

4. FALN. Clinton commuted the sentences of 16 members of FALN, a violent Puerto Rican terrorist group that set off 120 bombs in the United States, mostly in New York City and Chicago. The 16 were convicted of conspiracy and sedition and sentenced with terms ranging from 35 to 105 years in prison. Very Interesting??

5. Marc Rich, Pincus Green, business partners, indicted by U.S. Attorney on charges of tax evasion and illegal trading with Iran in 1983 and fled the country that year. Pardoned in 2001 after Rich's ex-wife, Denise Eisenberg Rich, made large donations to the Democratic Party and the Clinton Foundation. Very Interesting??


From the list of Pardons above, it doesn’t seem like - Lying to the FBI, or Tax Evasion or Fraud, or Obstruction of Justice, are such a big deal, when it comes to Presidents issuing pardons and or commuting sentences.

All US Presidents through out history have had that right and I suspect all future Presidents will maintain it right, given it is entrenched in the Constitution of the United States under Article II, with some limitation. Past Presidents have exercised it without question, also for personal and political reasons, as with Bill Clinton and his business associates and donations to the Democratic Party. None of their decisions or choices of people, appear to have ever been seriously questioned in the past, so why now.

So Trump has every right to pardon Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort and Roger Stone, if nothing else, based on the precedent of similar related Pardons, granted by his last 3 predecessors. =D> =D>

Just my two cents worth

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by Stantheman » February 16, 2020, 6:58 pm

First I think Barr's statement was, as pointed out, a smoke screen to appease DOJ staff. Second I forsee States such as New York to file State charges in future cases instead of deferring to DOJ. This way if convicted the Trumpster's buddies can not get Pardon from him.

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by stattointhailand » February 16, 2020, 7:15 pm

pipoz4444 wrote:
February 16, 2020, 5:46 pm
I seem to remember Obama passing comment on a matter under determination by the Supreme Court, inferring what they should or shouldn’t do, when the Supreme Court was deliberating on a particular matter close to his heart, suggesting how they should determine it before the event. Akin to cautioning the Supreme Court, before it finalized its deliberations.

I think Trump should just take a step back, allow current court to issue its decision regarding the jail time for Roger Stone. Who knows, the Judge may even call a miss trial after the statement by the Jury foreperson. It appears to put the Judge (Amy Berman) in the spotlight now, before she can proceed to issue her ruling on sentencing. :-k :-k

From what I have read, Stone appears to have grounds for an an appeal in part based on Jury bias, that has became evident after the fact. I am not sure how the US Judicial system works and or which court will hear that appeal (if it eventuates) but if it does, it may end up in the Supreme Court. :-k :confused: :confused:

Regardless, after that, as President, Trump has the right to pardon people and or commute their sentences, at any time, so I believe. Just like Obama, George Bush, Bill Clinton and all the presidents before them, without rhyme or reason,

Barack Obama pardoned some 212 people and commuted the sentences of another 1,715, including
1. James Cartwright, a retired United States Marine Corps 4* General, he pleaded guilty to giving false statements to federal investigators in 2016 and was awaiting sentencing. Doesn’t this sound familiar, sounds pretty similar to what Flynn has been charged with

2. Chelsea Manning, a U.S. Army whistle blower convicted by court-martial in July 2013, sentenced to 35 years in prison for providing classified documents to WikiLeaks. Sentence commuted on January 2017.

3. Willie McCovey, a professional baseball player, pleaded guilty to tax evasion in 1995 and was pardoned in January 2017, along with Ian Schrager co-owner of a dance club, who also guilty to tax evasion in 1979 and received three and a half years in prison and a $20,000 fine, but was then pardoned in January 2017. Similar to that of Paul Manafort

George Bush pardoned and or commuted 78 people, including
1. Lewis "Scooter" Libby – Assistant to President George W. Bush and Chief of Staff to Dick Cheney was convicted of perjury in connection with the CIA leak scandal involving members of State Department who 'outed' CIA officer Valerie Plame, who was sentenced to 30 months in prison and fined $250,000. Libby received commutation of his prison sentence, not a full pardon in July 2007.

Bill Clinton pardoned and or commuted some 456 people. He actually pardoned 140 in the final hours of his Presidency, (a very busy day), including

2. Henry Cisneros, a Clinton's Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, who pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count for lying to the FBI in 1999 about payments to a mistress. Similar to the charges against Flynn

3. John Deutch, a Director of Central Intelligence, former Provost and University Professor, MIT, who agreed to plead guilty to a misdemeanor for mishandling government secrets. President Clinton pardoned him in his last day in office, two days before the Justice Department could file the case against him.

4. FALN. Clinton commuted the sentences of 16 members of FALN, a violent Puerto Rican terrorist group that set off 120 bombs in the United States, mostly in New York City and Chicago. The 16 were convicted of conspiracy and sedition and sentenced with terms ranging from 35 to 105 years in prison. Very Interesting??

5. Marc Rich, Pincus Green, business partners, indicted by U.S. Attorney on charges of tax evasion and illegal trading with Iran in 1983 and fled the country that year. Pardoned in 2001 after Rich's ex-wife, Denise Eisenberg Rich, made large donations to the Democratic Party and the Clinton Foundation. Very Interesting??


From the list of Pardons above, it doesn’t seem like - Lying to the FBI, or Tax Evasion or Fraud, or Obstruction of Justice, are such a big deal, when it comes to Presidents issuing pardons and or commuting sentences.

All US Presidents through out history have had that right and I suspect all future Presidents will maintain it right, given it is entrenched in the Constitution of the United States under Article II, with some limitation. Past Presidents have exercised it without question, also for personal and political reasons, as with Bill Clinton and his business associates and donations to the Democratic Party. None of their decisions or choices of people, appear to have ever been seriously questioned in the past, so why now.

So Trump has every right to pardon Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort and Roger Stone, if nothing else, based on the precedent of similar related Pardons, granted by his last 3 predecessors. =D> =D>

Just my two cents worth

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completely agree pipoz the US legal system sucks =;

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by Kenr6583 » February 16, 2020, 7:35 pm

I agree with you pipoz4444, but I think the biggest difference is that the previous three Presidents were not, publicly anyway, undermining the judicial process by throwing insults at prosecutors and judges. Having an opinion on a case is one thing, but attempting to influence the outcome with public harassment and intimidation is another, IMO. My biggest issue in this particular case was the threatening of a witness by Stone.

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by jackspratt » February 16, 2020, 8:03 pm

stattointhailand wrote:
February 16, 2020, 7:15 pm

completely agree pipoz the US legal system sucks =;
Also agree.

Elected judges & magistrates ...... wtf!

Appointment to higher courts based on political affiliation....... give me a break!

While the US has undoubtedly produced many brilliant jurists, for those of us coming from a British based standard, the system that has produced them is a joke. [-X

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by stattointhailand » February 16, 2020, 8:33 pm

jackspratt wrote:
February 16, 2020, 8:03 pm
stattointhailand wrote:
February 16, 2020, 7:15 pm

completely agree pipoz the US legal system sucks =;
Also agree.

Elected judges & magistrates ...... wtf!

Appointment to higher courts based on political affiliation....... give me a break!

While the US has undoubtedly produced many brilliant jurists,
for those of us coming from a British based standard
, the system that has produced them is a joke. [-X
ah yes ....... now what was that on page 48 of the last tory manifesto ........ something about doing away with current system in favour of politically appointed judges :-$

No surely no sane leader would take revenge on people who obeyed the law instead of lying on their behalf would they

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by jackspratt » February 16, 2020, 8:55 pm

pipoz4444 wrote:
February 16, 2020, 5:46 pm

Regardless, after that, as President, Trump has the right to pardon people and or commute their sentences, at any time, so I believe. Just like Obama, George Bush, Bill Clinton and all the presidents before them, without rhyme or reason,.......


..........So Trump has every right to pardon Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort and Roger Stone, if nothing else, based on the precedent of similar related Pardons, granted by his last 3 predecessors. =D> =D>

Just my two cents worth

pipoz4444
Interesting, pipo, and highlighting (just another) blight on the US "justice" syatem.

However, how many of those pardons involved people who had served the totality, or a substantial part, of their sentences?

Unlike the ghastly cast currently being pardoned (or likely to be) by the BOB prior to conviction/sentence/locked up. :-k

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by Kenr6583 » February 17, 2020, 3:26 am

More than 1,100 former prosecutors and DOJ officials, both Republican and Democrat, want Attorney General Bill Barr to resign. Now that's funny.

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by TJ » February 17, 2020, 5:07 am

Kenr6583 wrote:
February 17, 2020, 3:26 am
More than 1,100 former prosecutors and DOJ officials, both Republican and Democrat, want Attorney General Bill Barr to resign. Now that's funny.
[/quote

Only 1100 former members of the Department of Just Us. Do you think that even one of them voted for President Trump? Would even one of them believe that the Deep State should finally be held accountable for corrupt and criminal acts? Not likely.

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by Kenr6583 » February 17, 2020, 6:12 am

TJ wrote:
February 17, 2020, 5:07 am
Kenr6583 wrote:
February 17, 2020, 3:26 am
More than 1,100 former prosecutors and DOJ officials, both Republican and Democrat, want Attorney General Bill Barr to resign. Now that's funny.
[/quote

Only 1100 former members of the Department of Just Us. Do you think that even one of them voted for President Trump? Would even one of them believe that the Deep State should finally be held accountable for corrupt and criminal acts? Not likely.
Last edited by Kenr6583 on February 17, 2020, 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Barr complains Trump tweets hinder him

Post by Kenr6583 » February 17, 2020, 6:14 am

Kenr6583 wrote:
February 17, 2020, 6:12 am
TJ wrote:
February 17, 2020, 5:07 am
Kenr6583 wrote:
February 17, 2020, 3:26 am
More than 1,100 former prosecutors and DOJ officials, both Republican and Democrat, want Attorney General Bill Barr to resign. Now that's funny.
[/quote

Only 1100 former members of the Department of Just Us. Do you think that even one of them voted for President Trump? Would even one of them believe that the Deep State should finally be held accountable for corrupt and criminal acts? Not likely.

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