China breaks its word over Hong Kong

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Laan Yaa Mo
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » April 8, 2021, 9:36 pm

Great discussion points there doodoo, keep up the great analysis...just don't stray too far off topic


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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by papafarang » April 8, 2021, 10:14 pm

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
April 8, 2021, 9:23 pm
When discussing the popularity of the Chinese government, one must not forget the Tiananmen Square Massacre from 15 April-4 June 1989. What lesson did the people of China leargn from their government?
What they learned was that a tiny minority are extremists that want to destroy the Chinese culture can be amplified by western media . they wanted to become McDanalds eating numpties that fell for western propaganda. Be honest about it ,even being generous maybe there was a million rioters , but when it come to a massacre how many died ? You can read 2 or 1000 or 10,000 . the west has worn out the words genocide and hero.seems now days a guy handing in a lost wallet is a hero and a guy standing on a daffodil is committng genocide.and now you want to discuss a few decades back.
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by jai yen yen » April 8, 2021, 10:31 pm

papafarang wrote:
April 8, 2021, 10:14 pm
Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
April 8, 2021, 9:23 pm
When discussing the popularity of the Chinese government, one must not forget the Tiananmen Square Massacre from 15 April-4 June 1989. What lesson did the people of China leargn from their government?
What they learned was that a tiny minority are extremists that want to destroy the Chinese culture can be amplified by western media . they wanted to become McDanalds eating numpties that fell for western propaganda. Be honest about it ,even being generous maybe there was a million rioters , but when it come to a massacre how many died ? You can read 2 or 1000 or 10,000 . the west has worn out the words genocide and hero.seems now days a guy handing in a lost wallet is a hero and a guy standing on a daffodil is committng genocide.and now you want to discuss a few decades back.
Yes, the wonderful Chinese culture must be allowed to continue. It is such a wonderful country with so much to give to the world. If only all countries were like China, can you imagine how great that would be?

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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by jackspratt » April 8, 2021, 10:31 pm

You learn something new every day on the Map.

Apparently, seeking democracy is now akin to destroying culture.

There must be a lesson to be learned there for the students in Bangkok (and elsewhere in Thailand), but more particularly those extremists in Myanmar.

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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » April 8, 2021, 11:21 pm

papafarang wrote:
April 8, 2021, 10:14 pm
Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
April 8, 2021, 9:23 pm
When discussing the popularity of the Chinese government, one must not forget the Tiananmen Square Massacre from 15 April-4 June 1989. What lesson did the people of China leargn from their government?
What they learned was that a tiny minority are extremists that want to destroy the Chinese culture can be amplified by western media . they wanted to become McDanalds eating numpties that fell for western propaganda. Be honest about it ,even being generous maybe there was a million rioters , but when it come to a massacre how many died ? You can read 2 or 1000 or 10,000 . the west has worn out the words genocide and hero.seems now days a guy handing in a lost wallet is a hero and a guy standing on a daffodil is committng genocide.and now you want to discuss a few decades back.
Genocide? Who mentioned a genocide, and who believes the goal of the protesters was to destroy Chinese culture? Oh, it was you. The voice of the odious and repressive government on the Map. It is nice to see you have your mind straight, Mr. Papa. Nevertheless it was a massacre, and your McDonald's eating numpties are alive and eating chicken nuggets all over the motherland.
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by AlexO » April 9, 2021, 8:05 am

Historically we've always been trying to divide China up , plenty of reading about that subject. As for the survey you need to read about the findings. Although the Chinese numbers show 95.5% support for the communist party ,the survey also shows Chinese are not satisfied with local government ,I think as low as 11% due to corruption . point simply being the Chinese like their government. Local officials not so much. One thing they compared it too was america where the results are opposite , Americans don't trust the federal government ,but trust state government much more.

Ok Dean
95.5% love the communist party, who else can they choose? Both Central and Local Governments are selected by the Party from the lists of Party members so logically 89% are against the party decisions but still love the Party who they have absolutely no say in??. I would take a bet that most if not all International Travelers are Party members or family of Party Members thus have special privileges compared to the untold millions of ordinary workers who live in factory dormitories 6/10 in a room mega miles from families. Thats why Chinese New Year is the biggest migration of human beings on the planet as they all travel home. No doubt China is far better than the old days of Moa but it is still his old pals or children of his old pals who are running the Country.
Your also wrong about Vietnam and land grabbing, been there and experienced what happens when people are required to vacate land. Just remember it was Uncle Ho's mates who were allowed to parcel up the whole of the South so no one apart from very rich Party members own anything in the South and there are compensation rules for those land owners in the North.

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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by papafarang » April 9, 2021, 9:16 am

Same as democracy in the UK , both labour and the conservatives select MPs from a list . those candidates are selected by party members only. The UK leader is also voted in by just party members, sounds the same to me. I know many Brits that have never been able to afford to go on exotic holidays .we have migrant workers all over the UK living in dorms or cramming 20 people into a 3 bedroomed house and all in what's called working poverty minimum wage having to work 14 hours a day so they can send money back home. How about zero hour contracts ? Sound familiar ? .
As for communist party members taking holidays , why if their rich would they be traveling in huge crowds on discounted zero dollar tours behaving like they've never eaten a prawn before. the fact that the Chinese can book a 5 night stay all inclusive holiday to Bali for as little as $60 kind of blows the theory of only the super rich party members go on holiday. We've all seen them in airports and their definitely not high ranking party members .
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by tamada » April 9, 2021, 9:35 am

AlexO wrote:
April 7, 2021, 9:25 pm
papafarang wrote:
April 7, 2021, 5:11 am
AlexO wrote:
April 6, 2021, 8:01 pm
papafarang wrote:
April 6, 2021, 9:43 am
AlexO wrote:
April 6, 2021, 8:30 am
papafarang wrote:
April 6, 2021, 8:17 am
there was never going to be democrocy in China or hong Kong . 90% of Chinese support the Chinese government so talking about democracy was just pie in the sky.thing is the few freedoms they had has been wasted by a tiny minority. I guess they just have to accept that they're chinese living in China. The good news is if they want democracy they can always move to the UK , they can give up their family , culture and blend into the melting pot . it is what it is.
I really would question your 90% of the people support the Government Dean. Mainland China is very much like most of Russia and quite a few SEA Countries where very few are very wealthy, a few more are in the doing well bracket but most are still working for day to day survival wages or not much more. China has a huge internal security system that prevents any kind of dissent against the Party leaders. Support is hardly the word for scared to object. Look what has happened in HK when they started to complain and demonstrate.
Chinese have about as much interest in democracy as we have in Communism. Very few are weathly ( you state more Billionaires than the USA),a "few" more doing well and the rest just surviving. Sounds like america to me, in fact it sounds like every country in the world. only 40 years ago 1.2 billion of them lived in extreme poverty mainly due to westerners trying to rip China apart seems to escape people. I was wrong about the 90% ,it is in fact 95.5% according to Harvard university
That will be one of the free and democratic votes/surveys held under the supervision of the Chinese state police Come on Dean even on a good day you aint gonna believe that. 40 years ago or so there was very little to no access to China so how were us evil westerners ripping China apart.
Historically we've always been trying to divide China up , plenty of reading about that subject. As for the survey you need to read about the findings. Although the Chinese numbers show 95.5% support for the communist party ,the survey also shows Chinese are not satisfied with local government ,I think as low as 11% due to corruption . point simply being the Chinese like their government. Local officials not so much. One thing they compared it too was america where the results are opposite , Americans don't trust the federal government ,but trust state government much more.
Dean.
Not allowed to dislike their Dictatorship. Same as a few times working in Hanoi quite a few comments that. 'Wish that the Americans had won.'
Meanwhile, those from Saigon returning from a trip to Hanoi are simply happy to be in the perpetually better half of the nation. The basic, rustic charm of the north can only take them so far but the beaches are quieter.

Same experience decades ago when Czechoslovakia split into the Czech Republic and Slovakia. The difference between Prague and Bratislava was like chalk and cheese. Prague had all the mod cons whereas Bratislava was like Hanoi, rough, basic but the people possessed a huge, entrepreneurial spirit.

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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by tamada » April 9, 2021, 9:40 am

jai yen yen wrote:
April 8, 2021, 10:31 pm
papafarang wrote:
April 8, 2021, 10:14 pm
Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
April 8, 2021, 9:23 pm
When discussing the popularity of the Chinese government, one must not forget the Tiananmen Square Massacre from 15 April-4 June 1989. What lesson did the people of China leargn from their government?
What they learned was that a tiny minority are extremists that want to destroy the Chinese culture can be amplified by western media . they wanted to become McDanalds eating numpties that fell for western propaganda. Be honest about it ,even being generous maybe there was a million rioters , but when it come to a massacre how many died ? You can read 2 or 1000 or 10,000 . the west has worn out the words genocide and hero.seems now days a guy handing in a lost wallet is a hero and a guy standing on a daffodil is committng genocide.and now you want to discuss a few decades back.
Yes, the wonderful Chinese culture must be allowed to continue. It is such a wonderful country with so much to give to the world. If only all countries were like China, can you imagine how great that would be?
But we're talking about Chinese culture not their cuisine.

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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » April 9, 2021, 9:48 am

Did someone mention the former Czechoslovakia or Vietnam?
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » April 9, 2021, 9:52 am

papafarang wrote:
April 8, 2021, 10:14 pm
[

What they learned was that a tiny minority are extremists that want to destroy the Chinese culture can be amplified by western media . they wanted to become McDanalds eating numpties that fell for western propaganda.

Is this what you were trying to question?
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » April 9, 2021, 10:04 am

Must be you who is dim/blind since Vietnam and Czechoslovakia have as much to do with Hong Kong as Chinese cuisine
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by papafarang » April 9, 2021, 10:13 am

The Chinese culture is as it is , Chinese . one thing the Chinese don't want is the west to be like them ,they have no intentions to spread communism. They like fat lazy westerners buying all their goods and that's the way they want to keep it. They have a plan to economically dominate the world ,no one can stop them. And I do love irony , fact is we showed them how to do it. Looks like my great grand children will end up working in the UK but the Chinese will own the company. Oh well that's the way the fortune cookie crumbles
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by AlexO » April 9, 2021, 11:24 am

As for communist party members taking holidays , why if their rich would they be traveling in huge crowds on discounted zero dollar tours behaving like they've never eaten a prawn before. the fact that the Chinese can book a 5 night stay all inclusive holiday to Bali for as little as $60 kind of blows the theory of only the super rich party members go on holiday. We've all seen them in airports and their definitely not high ranking party members .

Dean nowhere in my post did I say "rich party members" or even "super rich party members" I said party members. This can mean quite a lowly clerk in a local Government as they to have to be Party Members as well.
As to eating habits, I lived in the Kempinski in Shenzhen for over 6 months and some of the eating habits of some of the Chinese who one must assume were fairly well off if they are in a 5* hotel would turn your stomach.

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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by AlexO » April 9, 2021, 11:24 am

As for communist party members taking holidays , why if their rich would they be traveling in huge crowds on discounted zero dollar tours behaving like they've never eaten a prawn before. the fact that the Chinese can book a 5 night stay all inclusive holiday to Bali for as little as $60 kind of blows the theory of only the super rich party members go on holiday. We've all seen them in airports and their definitely not high ranking party members .

Dean nowhere in my post did I say "rich party members" or even "super rich party members" I said party members. This can mean quite a lowly clerk in a local Government as they to have to be Party Members as well.
As to eating habits, I lived in the Kempinski in Shenzhen for over 6 months and some of the eating habits of some of the Chinese who one must assume were fairly well off if they are in a 5* hotel would turn your stomach.

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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by papafarang » April 9, 2021, 7:54 pm

No I said that , but in China anyone can just get a passport and just go on holiday just like everyone else on the planet. I am jealous they can get a holiday in Bali for as little as $60. Plus they have 700,000,000 middle class who obviously can afford nice holidays. To top it off only 6.6% of Chinese are Communist party members so I doubt all these holiday makers are party members. If you think about how many go on holiday, they estimate that the 135 million tourist will expand to 400 million in just a few more years. That's a mind bogglingly large amount
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by AlexO » April 9, 2021, 8:27 pm

Not going to keep arguing numbers or figures but out of a population of just under 1.4 Billion around 50% are now classed as middle class?? Must be great to be living in a dormitory as a middle class factory worker. The Party member might be taking his family on holiday who are not Party Members so your 6.6% figure is really meaningless.

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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by GT93 » April 10, 2021, 6:04 pm

While I'm not a fan of the the Chinese government, I have a lot of time for the Chinese people. Many of them are very talented and they are competitive. I'll always look carefully at a CV I receive from a Chinese person. I think the rise and rise of China isn't close to finishing.

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