Water quality and/or content in udon villages

[LoneTraveler]

I did a search on this topic and I came up with how to cook noodles. I repeated search 3 times came up with same.
I would like to hear from anyone whom has knowledge concerning the water quality and/or content of the water supply in the suburban fringes of Udon Thani. I live in Sang Pean, Amphora Phen but still considered Udon Thani. When I shower there is a very salty taste to the water. Also, My washing machine has loads of slug, I checked detergent (powder) may contribute but I cleaned water tank and found the same type of slug at bottom.

I just bought a new washing machine and I hope to minimize the slug problem which causes the machine to leak water on the machine and floor and salt circulating through the machine can't be good either.. Also, I am looking into purchasing a water softener filter for the tank to help with the mineral buildup if indeed the water coming into the house is "hard water".

Can anyone direct me to how I can get info on the public water coming to my home. I do realize that the Villages may all have their own local water supply but I am wondering where the main supply comes from. We are friends with the Village Chief but when asked about water supply "deer in the headlights response. I purchased a large water filter from home Pro and attached it to the tank but the salt content has not been reduced. Therefore seeking a proper filter. Thank you in advance.

[Potamoi]

Firstly, if you are getting PWA (Provincial Waterworks Authority) water the hotline is on your thermal print bill, 1662 is the number you will likely need a subscriber number to discuss your case www.pwa.co.th. I have not done this at my Udon home but they should come out to take a sample and test for you if you are paying them for water and tell them your issues. Photos and some measurements will help your case.
NOTE: You can also take a sample to the Udon lab out the KK highway 2 but its ~6000 baht to test there. If you need more info on that please PM me.

Alot to discuss here and I am limited on time just now so here are some thoughts.

You say the water tastes salty to the tongue? Perhaps a meter like the one here is a good investment:
https://www.lazada.co.th/products/5-in- ... 720BymjCT

Sludge in the washing machine is ungood for sure but very salty water will trash your taps/fittings/plumbing throughout the home including the washing machine.

I'm guessing your home is not getting proper Udon city water as it has its faults but salinity is not usually one of them. We see some clay sediment in our home tank and try to clean that annually but for the most part the city water is reasonable (but not drinkable without filtration, RO and UV-C).

I'm guessing your district water well(s) are salty which apart from proper whole house filtration and reverse osmosis system there will not be much you can do apart from demand better. Of course you can drill your own well too (see the next thread first) but that has its own gamble and you will need an approved driller/permit which may not be allowed if city water is available.

Here is a thread RE groundwater department maps for sweet and less sweet water areas.
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=54205&p=660394#p660394

Which type of HomePro filter? A 20" Big Blue? Or one of those 12"x48" stainless or fibreglass vessels? Either way if salt IS the issue RO is the only real cure. Softening will not help with salty water but will for hard water.

A whole house system might include multi-stage filtration like Manganese/Anthracite, Carbon, Resin, ceramic, RO and UV-C along with the sediment filters along the stages. This can get spendy and there is maintenance involved (backwashing, sediment filter changing, media change, RO membrane changes, UV-C lamp replacement, measurements yadda, yadda).

Many guys with their own wells enjoy sweet water in the home with only a sediment filter then an under the sink mini-RO system for the drinking water. There are SOME who have had bad salty sediment filled wells too. Check the maps link above if this is the way you proceed.

I don't know if any of this helps you but you might also drive around looking for the village water tower to find the source wells if its not a PWA operation. Bring your new meter along

[LoneTraveler]

Potamol, thank you for your very informative advice and expertise you have address all of my issues thank you for taking the time to respond. I looked at the meter on Lazada and it appears to be a good investment to consistently check the quality of the household water. Can you tell me what RO means.

I currently have a filter attached to the water tank.which is about 5 feet tall and about 8 inches in diameter. It is cased in a black iron or some other kind of strong metal. Also, residual clay, not slug, sounds like what I have seen in the washer and tank. I will have to contact or visit some people at PWA as you suggested to maintain a relatively clean water supply with minimal salt content. Once again thank you..In the meantime I will visit Home Pro to look at filters to address the hard water. And I visited the local water tower and it looks as though it is about to topple at any minute and it is throughly rusted.

[parrot]

I did some checking on Thai websites for Sang Pean (assuming it's สร้างแป้น). 5000ish people, I couldn't find a PWA office in the area, so makes me wonder if you have access to PWA water. I'll guess by the water tank and salty taste that you're tapped into a village water supply.......sounds dodgy.
Before you invest in a water filtration system, I'd consider:
-asking around the village and see if everyone has the same problem.
-try to find the nearest supplier of drinking water. If there's one in your immediate area, you might inquire about the depth of their well, quality of water from the well, and type of filtration system they use
The village website says
4.5 built water sources
1. dams, number 9 places
2. shallow wells, number 10 places,
3. civil wells, number 9 places
4. Others (artesian wells) 7 places
If you're into detective work, ask around about those 9 civil wells....quality of water, how deep, etc. For my wife and I, life would be miserable without access to a reliable source of clean, preferably drinkable, water. We're fortunate to have a well......and would gladly pay many times what we paid for ours 25 years ago.

[Potamoi]

Can you tell me what RO means.

Sorry, I could have been more clear:
Reverse Osmosis

Here are web pics of an under the sink system people use just for drinking/cooking.

This one is a 600 gallon per day soup to nuts system (may be overkill for a home, too small for a water plant).

Parrot has some good advice there. The local drillers will have some anecdotal info I'm sure too.

Try using the GroundWater map app as well to see what your local area/property looks like to give an idea on if there is some hope in certain areas. https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... badan4thai Its in Thai.

Your own well just may be the cheapest alternative if your land is in the right area you have access for a small rig and the well depth is correct. Water is becoming more and more of a hot gov topic so be careful about following the correct rules and watch for the authorities looking for extra income. Yes, there are many unregistered/unpermitted wells out there but the groundwater agency is becoming more strict about this resource.

The rusty water tower is not a good sign. A wild-ass guess is that is your source are the well(s) are in a salty area.

Good luck in your investigation. Please follow up with your findings/solution in your area so others may learn.
PM if you need more nuanced boring (haha) details.

[LoneTraveler]

Potamoi & Parrot Thank you for taking the time to post great info concerning issues of water supply. I do recall having a similar drinking water setup under the sink in a house I rented in Udon. I will look into this for my home and see if feasible ( maintenance cost etc.) I will check with my wife to see whom she pays the water bills too. It is the only bill I do not see because my in-laws usually pay it ( I give them the money of course) because they are on the same water supply.

When I first moved into my home, I recall PCV pipes were laid into trenches dug parallel to the main road and each house had a water meter attached throughout our small village. Therefore we must all have the same source of water.
After I ask my wife about the condition of the water tower yesterday, she spoke to the Village Chief who told her they are changing over to a new tower so I will go have a look at the new one.

I consider a well about 5 years ago to take care of our water needs outside the home ( grass, garden etc.) I did not think to ask about the water quality if a well is dug. I did not know that a permit is needed, I will look into this. Thank you for the alert about the permit. I will make a trip to Home Depot tomorrow just to see what is available and can be a help to me. I will continue when I have more information and as you say this topic may be of help to others.

[LoneTraveler]

Hi I spoke to village chief and ask if she forwarded the complaints and she has many to the "powers that be" she said she has for a number of years and there has been no response to address the water quality. I have a copy of my water bill (in Thai only) and there is no company or other authority name as to where the payment goes too. Just receipt that states your payment (strange)?
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[parrot]

As we use well water, I don't have PWA water bills....but looking at many examples on google images, ค่าน้ำประปาปะวะ อุดร, I'll guess your bill is not for water from PWA.

[joepai]

As we use well water, I don't have PWA water bills....but looking at many examples on google images, ค่าน้ำประปาปะวะ อุดร, I'll guess your bill is not for water from PWA.

Unfortunately water (PWA) is cheap here and much is wasted

[Khun Paul]

If my memory serves me correctly, when Thaskin was PM he encouraged by the use of govt Loans for villages to install water water filtration plant to serve3 the local community, mine did and the water comes from a source inside the Local Wat, treated and is ok for anything but drinking.
It maybe your water comes from a similar source except that quality has gone and minimal cleaning of water is carried out.
Normally the headman is in overall control but some are good others not so .

[Potamoi]

Almost sounds like a private enterprise. Possibly even of one of the local government officials. That may be my cynical attitude but proper water works (and anyone selling water for that matter) need comply with Health Department guidelines and audits.

Here is what a PWA bill looks like:

There may be some pushback and reluctance to investigate from the local government if the water is being sold by a company associated with someone higher up. Or it may be just a local enterprise or temple doing their best to serve the community but have well(s) at the wrong location/depth. Either way it may take some doing to correct the source issue.

You may want to get a plan B going with sourcing a driller and looking at the map app link I posted previously to see about your own well. First things first. Get your basic TDS, EC and salinity measurements along with pH. Your salty taste may show a very high TDS level.

Just for Drinking Water reference (not tap or well water):
Ministry of Public Health - Department of Medical Sciences
Drinking water and ice lab test result ranges:

pH: 6.5-8.5
TDS *: <500
Hardness: <100
Nitrate: <4.0
Coliforms MPN: <2.2
Escherichia coli: nil
Salmonella: nil
Staphylococcus aureus: nil

* TDS (Total Dissolved Solids)

https://www3.dmsc.moph.go.th/en/

[Khun Paul]

When i first came here over 20 years ago and in buying my house we had a rubbish supply and I ended up sourcing my water from a tanker until the village organised itself and we had clean ( not drinkable water ) daily.
Drinking water, I sourced a vast variety of methods and in truth over the last 20 years, buying bottled drinking water either in large containers or smaller bottles , I have spent less than installing a up market water filter system to make any water drinkable as not only the installation price but also the maintenance is not that cheap . My friend who installed a system some two years before me has just updated his system at a cost of over 36000 baht , which equates to just over 8 years of supply I need for my house and I have ZERO Maintenance to deal with . So unless it is a real need buy drinking water, you are assured of the quality , never runs out unless you forget to order etc. Well water or water from the PWA or wherever is normally good enough to shower/wash and do daily cleaning tasks.

[LoneTraveler]

Khun Paul

I agree with the drinking water supply, I buy bottled water. The filter I have cost a lot and it was suppose to filter out the salt and residue, so the salesman said. As far as maintenance, I agree can get very expensive. My wife turned the handle on the filter to drain the tank and it broke off, cost me 6000 baht to replace a plastic handle. I mainly bought the filter because my wife was complaining about the high salt content. Bought the filter, still have the salt content but the water seems cleaner and softer..

My concern about the low quality of the water content is to reduce clay residue and minimize salt and what ever is lurking in the well water supplied to our house. I have had 2 washing machines get clogged with grey clay residue, I mean a lot. Had men come take machine apart and clean (they did a great job) machine is working fine and they cleaned out the water tank everything looks good. I would like to keep it that way. I bought washing machine cleaning tablets for the washer to use monthly, perhaps that will help.

If I can find a supplier who can tank in certified clean water which I use for shower, laundry, dishes etc. I would go that route considering we are a family of 3. rather than risk taps, pipes, washing machine etc.getting clogged or worse from our current water supply.

[Khun Paul]

Part of the problem i see these days is the Tanks themselves. When I came I purchased only Stainless Steel tanks , their outflow point is placed about is placed about 6 inches above the base of the tank which by the way has the ability to be drained at that point.
The more modern plastic tanks and the old clay tanks the output is placed at the bottom of the tank.
This means that the sediment does not sink below the output but rather builds up and clogs everything overtime.
You need to have two largish Stainless steel tanks so that while you are filling one , you use the other and the twp days plus, the newly filled tank sediment will sink below the output.
I clean mine out about every 18 months takes about 30 mins, but if your delivered water is more polluted than more often would seem sensible.
As heads up, I know when it is needed, as I get a faint discolouration in the water, so I change tanks and clean out the offending one and refill it. ( By the way I have Three large tanks totallng 7500 litres for home usage , so the water has plenty of time to clear itself of floating sediment )

There is NO filter I know that will clean the water as you require it salty will not affect your washing machine .

[BillaRickaDickay]

Part of the problem i see these days is the Tanks themselves. When I came I purchased only Stainless Steel tanks , their outflow point is placed about is placed about 6 inches above the base of the tank which by the way has the ability to be drained at that point.
The more modern plastic tanks and the old clay tanks the output is placed at the bottom of the tank.
This means that the sediment does not sink below the output but rather builds up and clogs everything overtime.
You need to have two largish Stainless steel tanks so that while you are filling one , you use the other and the twp days plus, the newly filled tank sediment will sink below the output.
I clean mine out about every 18 months takes about 30 mins, but if your delivered water is more polluted than more often would seem sensible.
As heads up, I know when it is needed, as I get a faint discolouration in the water, so I change tanks and clean out the offending one and refill it. ( By the way I have Three large tanks totallng 7500 litres for home usage , so the water has plenty of time to clear itself of floating sediment )

There is NO filter I know that will clean the water as you require it salty will not affect your washing machine .

With respect Sir, Plenty of Plastic Tanks with two outlets at the base of the tank, one for draining, the other a couple of inches above the drain for the main outlet.
Recently purchased a couple to collect rain water.

[Khun Paul]

Noted BUT TWO inches is not enough, I often clean out up to THREE inches of crud after a two year pause, and my sediment is mainly sand used in the cleaning process at the main pumping station.

Where is the main drainage outlet to clean the tank , with the stainless Steel tanks, it is in the centre underneath which is easily accessible in fact you can insert a drainage pipe to extend outside the undereneath with a stop cock to facilitate easier cleaning. Not seen that on PLASTIC tanks, plus with the internal pipework inside the tank being installed by the manufacturer any problems it is almost impossible to fix.
Stainless stell cost a lot more BUT they are just a tank, everything else is external, easily replaceable , in 20 years only had one SMALLER tank of which I have seven, have a problem which was easily fixed. Never replaced any of the e34xternal pipework .

[Potamoi]

There is NO filter I know that will clean the water as you require it salty will not affect your washing machine .

There is, its called Reverse Osmosis but its expensive has maintenance and consumes more power.

If the water we are discussing is salty per the original post it most certainly will be bad for all plumbing including taps, lines, fittings, ass hoses (bum guns), water heaters, dishwashers, jet tubs, washing machines etc.

The stainless tanks with the centre drain are a nice luxury. Downside is if your source water has a lot of free iron which will eventually rust your expensive stainless investment. This is often the case with some of the untreated well water in this part of Thailand.

The plastic tanks come in a few varieties, are cheaper and don't rust when iron levels are higher. They come with piping inside and without. Most come with two outlets one a couple inches above the other. Some are a few degrees from each other others are 90 degrees from each other (deep blue ones). I see many builders plumb into the smaller lower drain for water delivery which is likely because it's easy (including my original builder). Using the second access larger port higher definitely makes it easier to drain sediment but likely requires a reducer from 1.5" or 2" (I forget the size just now) down to the typical 1" NPT pump interface.

A guy could stage two tanks have the second tank filled from a higher level of the first tank if sediment is a concern thus having the first tank the one that catches the most sediment to be partially drained at regular intervals to clear out sediment. This can be done with one tank higher than the other or on level ground with additional modified ports
added high up in the tanks (see drawings).

The level ground version allows for much more sediment before needing to drain. It does require drilling new ports up high on the tank (where they can be reached through the service cover). Both require level control on the second tank for fastest fill times. Note the modified port connections need to have larger pipe to reduce friction and be put as low as one can reach in order to keep tank 1 from overflowing due to flow rate to tank 2. Also in the case of a well being the source an electrical level control switch may be advantageous particularly in the first tank scenario.

Finding a tanker guy that gets clean water is certainly a challenge. That TDS meter will be useful to check before delivery.

A sediment filter can help too. Not sure what material is in your 4 ft tall HomePro jobbie. It may be pool filter sand, anthracite or greensand or both (for iron and manganese removal), carbon (removes smell and excess chlorine) a combination if these or even resin (for water softening which requires regeneration with salt water from time to time). In any case, It should have the ability to backflush it regularly. It is not practical due to the water tanker's pump type and time but wouldn't it be great if you could filter the water as it goes in the tanks from the tanker truck?

Sounds like your drinking water is sorted using bottled water.

[Khun Paul]

Note your comment reference stainless steel tanks, narry a problem, inside apart from sediment staining as good as when bought 20 years ago . The only problem I had was a smaller one started to weep at a joint. Fixed with metal filler etc.
Maybe a nice luxury, but in my book a necessity to having a goodly supply of water for household usage a one off cost that needs almost zero maintenance over the years. problem here always has been getting a supply that is clean with acceptable quality for use .

[Potamoi]

Note your comment reference stainless steel tanks, narry a problem, inside apart from sediment staining as good as when bought 20 years ago . The only problem I had was a smaller one started to weep at a joint. Fixed with metal filler etc.
Maybe a nice luxury, but in my book a necessity to having a goodly supply of water for household usage a one off cost that needs almost zero maintenance over the years. problem here always has been getting a supply that is clean with acceptable quality for use .

Sounds like your source water is nicely low in iron and not enough chlorine is being used to damage the chromium oxide passive film layer in your tanks.

[LoneTraveler]

There is some sound advice and guidance in the responses to my initial post. I will have to reread them until I get a sense of the direction I want to go.

I initially looked into stainless tank when having the house built but I could not understand the advantage over a plastic tank at the time. The filter I purchased does not seem to be doing much to improve the water quality such as lessen the sediment and salt content. I will keep investigating although what can be done to improve things seems to already be document in response posts. I will heed to all the advice and guidance here, And I thank everyone to posted, gives me a lot to think about. Sound like I may have to live with the salt content. I spent time in Vietnam and Mexico and it was bottled water all the time so I guess I will have to live with the fact that during my lifetime here in Thailand, I will be drinking bottled water.

I did find out that our water supply is owned by a private company or individual. The water source comes from a well and pumped into a water tower. My wife said that some folks in the village told her that salt is added to the water supply to, dare I say, purify the water.

I am curious as to why the content of the water supply is so bad considering all the rainfall we had had this year. And if it contributes to the well water or, somehow, sea water is be mixed into the ground water by Mother Nature.