The swastika

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Post by hxjohn » October 28, 2007, 12:52 pm

i can see you loseing the nazi symbol :shock:



laphanphon

Post by laphanphon » October 29, 2007, 12:11 am

many religions use the swastika, meaning a complete different thing centuries before adolf and his nazi friends decided to use it. it only means what you see. if you see hatred, then that's what it will mean to you. if you see good luck and life, then that's what it means to you. i kind of like it, a symbol of free speech, no matter what you see, one's expression of belief. i do not like special interest groups controlling our thoughts and expression. i understand in a couple countries it's actually illegal to display, and i may be incorrect, but special interest groups are trying to make it illegal in all of europe. sad day when one tells another what they can and can not see or think by themselves.

i may not believe in what you say, but as long as it doesn't physically hurt, or intend to decieve, i surely can't argue one's right to express themselves. once that right is taken away, the rest are not far behind. 8)

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Post by hxjohn » October 29, 2007, 2:31 am

very true the swastika was only borrowed buy the nazis haveing myself seen it used in the decor of temples in india the one in new deli as dozens if not hundreds of them on the outside wall
i think you will find that because the symbol on this website can be seen in those countries its very possible that it could be banned
without looking at the rules of this site iam pretty sure that symbol is not allowed
but good point.s in your post laphanphon

laphanphon

Post by laphanphon » October 29, 2007, 9:06 am

for those associating with nazi symbol in aviatar.................it is being disposed of, so can't be too many complaints.......................or..........................is that someone trying to take it out and starting a whole new youth training......................i need more therapy :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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redbeard
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Post by redbeard » October 30, 2007, 7:34 am

laphanphon wrote:many religions use the swastika, meaning a complete different thing centuries before adolf and his nazi friends decided to use it. it only means what you see. if you see hatred, then that's what it will mean to you. if you see good luck and life, then that's what it means to you. i kind of like it, a symbol of free speech, no matter what you see, one's expression of belief. i do not like special interest groups controlling our thoughts and expression. i understand in a couple countries it's actually illegal to display, and i may be incorrect, but special interest groups are trying to make it illegal in all of europe. sad day when one tells another what they can and can not see or think by themselves.

i may not believe in what you say, but as long as it doesn't physically hurt, or intend to decieve, i surely can't argue one's right to express themselves. once that right is taken away, the rest are not far behind. 8)
got to agree LA just because the Nazi concept is corrupt doesnt mean the Swastika is evil http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swasti ... istory.htm little history here =D>

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Post by BKKSTAN » October 30, 2007, 7:51 am

redbeard wrote:
laphanphon wrote:many religions use the swastika, meaning a complete different thing centuries before adolf and his nazi friends decided to use it. it only means what you see. if you see hatred, then that's what it will mean to you. if you see good luck and life, then that's what it means to you. i kind of like it, a symbol of free speech, no matter what you see, one's expression of belief. i do not like special interest groups controlling our thoughts and expression. i understand in a couple countries it's actually illegal to display, and i may be incorrect, but special interest groups are trying to make it illegal in all of europe. sad day when one tells another what they can and can not see or think by themselves.

i may not believe in what you say, but as long as it doesn't physically hurt, or intend to decieve, i surely can't argue one's right to express themselves. once that right is taken away, the rest are not far behind. 8)
got to agree LA just because the Nazi concept is corrupt doesnt mean the Swastika is evil http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swasti ... istory.htm little history here =D>
I think because of the holocaust and the relationship of the swastika to the torment and suffering of millions of people,not just Jews,That there is a strong negative psychological effect on alot of people!In consideration for those people and as an affront to those who still aspire to the thinking of the Nazis,it is understandable that there might be some positive purpose to some of these laws.

Maybe there should be a provision in the laws that intent to promote hate or racism be prosecutable versus a blankety over everyones freedom of expression!

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redbeard
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Post by redbeard » October 30, 2007, 8:54 am

Stan I understand where you are coming from but to outlaw a symbol from history that some people hold as part of their religion ,from a time before "Nazi" was a concept, IMO this would hand the "Nazi" a victory of sorts .Surely if we educated people about its history and showed that the "Swastika" was not owned by the "Nazis" .Otherwise we have people outlawing symbols from other genocide events around the world and where does it stop .Would you arrest someone practicing their religion in a peaceful manor for using this symbol of their faith ,IMO its an other case of "political correctness " going to far :(

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Post by Laan Yaa Mo » October 30, 2007, 9:15 am

There is a town in Ontario named Swastika. The residents were asked to change the name of the town a couple of years ago, but they refused to do so.

There is another town in Toronto that used to be called Berlin. That was changed in the First World War to the much more appropriate Kitchener-Waterloo. Kitchener for the British Field-Marshall or General; and Waterloo, to remind everyone of the British (not Prussian) victory over Napoleon and the French.

Somewhere in a thread a few days ago, it was mentioned that in America the use of the word 'colored' for black people is verboten. It is not so true in Canada where many people from Barbados, Jamaica, Trinidad and so on refer to themselves as 'coloured'. The implication in the West Indian community is that the paler you are the easier and better it is for you to find a marriage partner.

I only found this out by commenting on a t-shirt with the words, 'Black is Beautiful', worn by a young lady from Jamaica. She thanked me and said, 'but not too black'! Currently, there is an intense debate among the West Indian community in Toronto about how to deal with this issue of colour among blacks.

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BKKSTAN
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Post by BKKSTAN » October 30, 2007, 11:14 am

redbeard wrote:Stan I understand where you are coming from but to outlaw a symbol from history that some people hold as part of their religion ,from a time before "Nazi" was a concept, IMO this would hand the "Nazi" a victory of sorts .Surely if we educated people about its history and showed that the "Swastika" was not owned by the "Nazis" .Otherwise we have people outlawing symbols from other genocide events around the world and where does it stop .Would you arrest someone practicing their religion in a peaceful manor for using this symbol of their faith ,IMO its an other case of "political correctness " going to far :(
:D You make a good point!I was just offering a reason why some would have great objections to the swastika!I still believe that a law to prevent criminal intent in the use of the symbol is warranted in some touchier areas!

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Roy
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Post by Roy » October 30, 2007, 11:54 am

While I agree it is hard not to think of the evil committed under the banner of the Swastika I think Redbeard is totally correct.
This symbol is thousands of years old and to outlaw it because of its misuse over a period of a couple of decades would seem to harsh.
Perhaps if we actually had more exposure to it and its original meaning then it could be reclaimed.
Anyone who is not from the UK may be unaware that the English flag, the Cross of St. George was hijacked in the early 70's by white supremest groups and to display it could invoke racial tension and even violence.
As a boy I remember that it would always put me on edge seeing it flying from the window of a house, a group of terrifying skinheads surely lurked within those walls ready to emerge and extract their hatred on all in their path.
Certain local councils even went so far as to ban its display, yes the flag of England was not allowed in England!
In the 90's there was a well publicized effort to reclaim it from the Neo Nazi factions and today we can once more display it with pride.
Whilst I understand the Swastika generates much more deep seated emotions I believe this could be overcome in time through exposure and education.
History would seem to confirm this, after all our American cousins use the Eagle as their national symbol.
The Eagle under who's banner half the known world was enslaved, tortured and killed.
The symbol of the Roman Empire!
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Post by wokkawombat » October 30, 2007, 12:09 pm

From memory the Tuborg or Carlsberg brewery in Copenhagen has two elephants adorned with the swastika at the enterance to the brewery. I was there 30 years ago so I may be wrong... :D

John
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Irish Alan
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Post by Irish Alan » October 30, 2007, 1:32 pm

I once asked the question on another forum if young Thai people understood the implications of the Nazi Swastika. Yes the Hindu definition was thrown back at me and of course a swastika by itself goes back thousands of years and is used as a sacred symbol by Hindus, Buddhists and Jaines but that is not what I meant. I mean the Thais that ride around with a crash helmet like this:

Image

How do they think they would have fared out under the Nazis?

laphanphon

Post by laphanphon » October 30, 2007, 4:09 pm

Otherwise we have people outlawing symbols from other genocide events around the world and where does it stop
just think if adolf decided to use the 'cross' as his symbol. would most christian religions no longer use it? i doubt it. special interest groups push the limits to the point of restricting free expression/speech/press.

in speech, what something means to me, can easily be misinterpetted by someone else. but neither is wrong, as with most word, adjectives, the meaning can be a bit vague. examples of colored/people of color/black, they all mean the same to me, but may be offensive to others. the dreaded 'n' word, i used and use quite often, but growing up in a mixed neighborhood, it is entirely appropiate to use it the way i choose, for i apply my meaning to it. mixed neighborhood would be mixed race, black and white. wow, even have to explain that, as it might be construed as any of a 100 different scenerios.

if i use the 'n' word, funny for me even to say it that way, and someone over hears me and is offended, then i'm going to guess whatever meaning he or she attaches to it is offensive, and they represent what they think it is and is discriptive of themselves. not sure, but need another beer, oops, no time. oh well, just my demented thoughts.

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beer monkey
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Post by beer monkey » October 30, 2007, 4:37 pm

Irish Alan wrote:. I mean the Thais that ride around with a crash helmet like this:

Image

How do they think they would have fared out under the Nazis?
More fool them those cheap imitation helmuts won't do them much good in a heavy impact. [-X

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Alex Jones
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Post by Alex Jones » October 30, 2007, 9:19 pm

Read, learn or hold your tongue. Some of you posters disgust me; others embolden me. Choose your FEMA camp, FEMA campers.

By the way, 'Swastika' is a proper noun; that means it begins with a capital letter.

:evil:

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beer monkey
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Post by beer monkey » October 30, 2007, 10:06 pm

FF. :-k
Can You Dig It Dug.?

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beer monkey
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Post by beer monkey » October 30, 2007, 10:08 pm

Edit.
Whoops double post...time out. :|
Can You Dig It Dug.?

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Sugarfree
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Post by Sugarfree » October 30, 2007, 10:23 pm

I have seen the American flag being used as an Avatar on this forum. Is it not disgusting? Should there not be a law against that also? To paraphrase BKKSTAN:

I think because of the bombing in Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam and the relationship of the American flag to the torment and suffering of millions of people, not just in South-East Asia, that there is a strong negative psychological effect on a lot of people! In consideration for those people and as an affront to those who still aspire to the thinking that USA is a bastion for freedom, democracy and human rights, it is understandable that there might be some positive purpose to those kind of laws.

And of course the same applies to the Chinese flag, pictures of Mao, the flag and others symbols of the former Soviet Union etc. Should we not ban them also according to the same rationale that is being used against the swastika?

About USA war crimes in Cambodia read here: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle ... emID=12814

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Alex Jones
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Post by Alex Jones » October 30, 2007, 10:27 pm

So, a mate of mine liked an old avatar. So what?

We are both 'Public Enemy' fans. Is that a crime? Having like-minded ppl?

On this site, many are like-minded. Try finding an avatar 100-100 pixels.

Am I allowed to have friends and share ideas?

Hmmm?

Alex :roll:

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Roy
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Post by Roy » October 30, 2007, 10:32 pm

Well said Sugarfree, I say lets be done with it, let lose the doomsday machine and ban humans from the planet! :lol:
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