ClimateGate busts things wide open

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Udon Map » March 14, 2019, 6:07 pm

Lone Star wrote:
March 14, 2019, 2:44 pm
There is one salient, recurring fact that believers cannot escape. Their message sucks. They don't win many converts for the same recurring reasons.
Without necessarily disagreeing with anything you said, we're all talking about the wrong thing. We're talking about scientists lying, people being turned by constant haranguing, skeptics laughing at believers when they find intentional concealment, etc. These are all process issues. Why aren't we talking about the actual science, -- you know, objective data that supports or refutes either position? It's only by looking at the data and facts that we have any hope of ever reaching any type of consensus.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Lone Star » March 14, 2019, 8:39 pm

Udon Map wrote:
March 14, 2019, 6:07 pm
. . .

We're talking about scientists lying

. . .

Why aren't we talking about the actual science

. . .
That's why.

It always takes time for credibility to be restored -- if ever. And then the next data manipulation occurs and is exposed.

The discussion has evolved to 'how' and other tangents mainly for that reason.
Leftism -- whether it's communism or globalism or democratic socialism or anything in between -- does nothing, but keep its victims small, weak, dependent, impoverished and enslaved little boys and girls.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Udon Map » March 14, 2019, 8:46 pm

Lone Star wrote:
March 14, 2019, 8:39 pm
It always takes time for credibility to be restored -- if ever. And then the next data manipulation occurs and is exposed.
I don't agree. It's not about credibility. The science is the science.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Lone Star » March 14, 2019, 10:17 pm

Udon Map wrote:
March 14, 2019, 8:46 pm
Lone Star wrote:
March 14, 2019, 8:39 pm
It always takes time for credibility to be restored -- if ever. And then the next data manipulation occurs and is exposed.
I don't agree. It's not about credibility. The science is the science.
The climate is the climate. It has credibility.

The environment is the environment. It has credibility.

The atmosphere is the atmosphere. It has credibility.

The Earth is Earth. It has credibility.

The ones who provide the data on it all and try to explain it are the ones who need the credibility. The believers have lost credibility. If that were not true, their message would be crystal clear, specific, detailed and easily explained.
Leftism -- whether it's communism or globalism or democratic socialism or anything in between -- does nothing, but keep its victims small, weak, dependent, impoverished and enslaved little boys and girls.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Udon Map » March 15, 2019, 9:38 am

Lone Star wrote:
March 14, 2019, 10:17 pm
The ones who provide the data on it all and try to explain it are the ones who need the credibility. The believers have lost credibility. If that were not true, their message would be crystal clear, specific, detailed and easily explained.
Exactly my point. Ignore the past, get equal numbers of people with each points of view on the committee and let them figure it out. Put only skeptics on the committee, and you and I both know what the answer's going to be. No point in wasting the time or money on the committee, in that case.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Lone Star » March 15, 2019, 9:42 am

Udon Map wrote:
March 15, 2019, 9:38 am
Lone Star wrote:
March 14, 2019, 10:17 pm
The ones who provide the data on it all and try to explain it are the ones who need the credibility. The believers have lost credibility. If that were not true, their message would be crystal clear, specific, detailed and easily explained.
Exactly my point. Ignore the past, get equal numbers of people with each points of view on the committee and let them figure it out. Put only skeptics on the committee, and you and I both know what the answer's going to be. No point in wasting the time or money on the committee, in that case.
Except those lacking credibility for manipulating data aren't the skeptics. It's still up to believers to make their case.
Leftism -- whether it's communism or globalism or democratic socialism or anything in between -- does nothing, but keep its victims small, weak, dependent, impoverished and enslaved little boys and girls.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Udon Map » March 15, 2019, 10:29 am

Lone Star wrote:
March 15, 2019, 9:42 am
Except those lacking credibility for manipulating data aren't the skeptics. It's still up to believers to make their case.
You keep getting hung up in the past. Tabula rasa. This is exactly why you need both sides on the committee. If, as perhaps you suspect, the believers try to pull any nonsense with the data, the skeptics will be right there to call them on it.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Lone Star » March 15, 2019, 10:35 am

Udon Map wrote:
March 15, 2019, 10:29 am
Lone Star wrote:
March 15, 2019, 9:42 am
Except those lacking credibility for manipulating data aren't the skeptics. It's still up to believers to make their case.
You keep getting hung up in the past. Tabula rasa. This is exactly why you need both sides on the committee. If, as perhaps you suspect, the believers try to pull any nonsense with the data, the skeptics will be right there to call them on it.
The results and the analysis will all work itself out. I've said from the start that I will scrutinize whatever findings come from it.

In a perfect world, everything would be balanced. The world's not perfect. I'm not going to lose a minute of sleep over this -- even if packed with LIBs.
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by parrot » March 15, 2019, 2:58 pm

If you're interested in one 9 years old view, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/opin ... e=Homepage (the book is included in a pdf)

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Lone Star » March 15, 2019, 4:59 pm

parrot wrote:
March 15, 2019, 2:58 pm
If you're interested in one 9 years old view, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/opin ... e=Homepage (the book is included in a pdf)
Yes, it's another version of using innocent children as shields to blur the failures of believers. LIBs, border invaders and Islamic terrorists use the same tactics in varying degrees.

The LIB Green Youth will tug at your heart strings and try to use guilt and emotion to dominate your critical thinking and reasoning skills.

If the believer scientists can't articulate their position and convince us, use a 9 year-old.

I'll say it again: the messaging of believers sucks. So predictable.
Leftism -- whether it's communism or globalism or democratic socialism or anything in between -- does nothing, but keep its victims small, weak, dependent, impoverished and enslaved little boys and girls.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by FrazeeDK » March 15, 2019, 4:59 pm

9 years old and has the presence of mind and maturity to analyze climate science and convinced enough to write a book.. What a clever lad.. He'll be in Harvard by age 10 if he wasn't led down this trail by an adult and programmed accordingly....
Dave

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Lone Star » March 15, 2019, 5:02 pm

FrazeeDK wrote:
March 15, 2019, 4:59 pm
. . .

if he wasn't led down this trail by an adult and programmed accordingly....
My bet.
Leftism -- whether it's communism or globalism or democratic socialism or anything in between -- does nothing, but keep its victims small, weak, dependent, impoverished and enslaved little boys and girls.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Lone Star » March 16, 2019, 2:52 pm



Gregory Wrightstone, Heartland Institute Policy Advisor
Leftism -- whether it's communism or globalism or democratic socialism or anything in between -- does nothing, but keep its victims small, weak, dependent, impoverished and enslaved little boys and girls.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by rick » March 16, 2019, 11:58 pm

Yet another skeptic who is vague and selective with his facts.

Average CO2 2,600 ppm? Very hard to provide averages as reconstructions of earth's CO2 levels use indirect methods and depend on a limited number of estimates spread over a timescale of - how long - he doesn't say but it could be 500 million years or 2 billion years .... basically CO2 levels over the last 600 million years have gradually been falling - from 6000 ppm during the Cambrian period to about 3.000 ppm 200 million years ago, and 760 ppm about 34 million years ago.
Since then CO2 levels continued to decline until the ice age that started about 3 million years ago. So let's be clear, 1000 ppm plus of CO2 hasn't been around for the last 40 million years.

Also just because CO2 levels were higher doesn't mean the Earth was a lot hotter. The Eocene climate was very similar - over the whole planet, very similar temperatures to the tropics of today. This was probably because ocean currents pushed polar water into the tropics, warming the poles and cooling the tropical areas. When that ended, the poles started to cool. Also, the sun was a lot cooler when CO2 levels were very high, only 70% of what it is today back 2 billion years ago. The CO2 stopped the planet from freezing, do not need so much now.

Droughts - at this point in time we just do not know if higher temperatures will lead to more droughts or not, as average rainfall will probably increase, but higher temperatures will exacerbate the problems that drought causes. His claim that the worse droughts occurred more than 50 years ago is debatable - When i accessed a list the first 5 were all in the last 40 years. Higher temperatures and higher humidity could lead to more deaths from Hyperthermia - a sustained temperature of over 35 degrees is fatal to humans unless they can keep cool from sweating or other means to cool the body down.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Lone Star » March 17, 2019, 12:33 pm



Algore, inventor of the Internet, says 99% PLUS scientists agree with him

Another GREAT example of how the messaging of believers is pathetic. No rational, clear thinking adult with reasoning skills would believe this, but all those kids cutting class to protest would believe it. Useful idiots.
Well, I don’t think that there are, obviously, there’s no basis for doubting what Mother Nature is telling us now. It’s beyond consensus of 99 percent of the scientists. Just listen to Mother Nature, and the climate-related extreme weather events have quadrupled in recent years. Here in the U.S. alone, in less than nine years we’ve had 17 once-in-a-thousand-year events, and they keep on coming, and they keep on getting worse. So, the old strategy of trying to fool people into disbelieving the evidence in front of their own eyes is failing. And, we’re crossing a tipping point now, Brooke. We’re seeing many Republicans change there positions and join the growing bipartisan consensus. The debate’s not about the science. That debate’s long since over. The debate now is about the best ways to move as fast as we can to solve this crisis.
"That debate's long since over."

Really? 55555
Leftism -- whether it's communism or globalism or democratic socialism or anything in between -- does nothing, but keep its victims small, weak, dependent, impoverished and enslaved little boys and girls.

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