Missing Boys in Caves.

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Giggle
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Re: Missing Boys in Caves.

Post by Giggle » July 13, 2018, 3:05 pm

Two things Thais have a really hard time saying:
1. I'm sorry.
2. I don't know.
My suspicion is that the men in charge of the operation had no idea regarding the state of the boys as divers pulled them through the caves. But, in accordance with #2 above, winged it. Probably with an all-knowing smile of assurance and a wagging finger for emphasis. For a Thai leader in such a position to say, "I'm not sure, but I can find out," is incomprehensible.

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Re: Missing Boys in Caves.

Post by vlad » July 13, 2018, 7:29 pm

Oh well on a brighter side a press conference was arranged this morning on the arrival of the British Team at Heathrow with the Typical British attitude when asked "Do you see as Hero's " to which came no we are just cave divers who are good at what we do and we were asked to help out. This was after the 1st three who first found the boys that were found were given Certificates from Thai Authorities presented them at the Airport when they left.

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tamada
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Re: Missing Boys in Caves.

Post by tamada » July 13, 2018, 10:14 pm

Giggle wrote:
July 13, 2018, 3:05 pm
Two things Thais have a really hard time saying:
1. I'm sorry.
2. I don't know.
My suspicion is that the men in charge of the operation had no idea regarding the state of the boys as divers pulled them through the caves. But, in accordance with #2 above, winged it. Probably with an all-knowing smile of assurance and a wagging finger for emphasis. For a Thai leader in such a position to say, "I'm not sure, but I can find out," is incomprehensible.
Really? I find ขอโทษ and ไม่รู้ tend to flow with ease from the Thai's I encounter.

Since nobody has done such a time-pressured rescue of weak, non-swimming and non-diving juveniles from a flooded cave anywhere else in the world. I would wager that had such an event pre-empted the recent events here in Thailand, their leadership would be winging it as well.

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jimjay
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Re: Missing Boys in Caves.

Post by jimjay » July 14, 2018, 12:31 am

I found it interesting that the Police Chief who had pissed everyone off, after identifying & forcing the Facebook poster who started a backlash campaign against him to "publicly apologize", -was making a "comeback" to the site to re-assert control the very day the Brit divers found the boys.

Imagine if they'd not found the boys by the time he got back I think the whole thing would have gone south under his oppressive wrath. Never did hear much about him after that. Hopefully he got swept aside by higher-ups.

Great multi-use of the sled-like stretcher and really in-depth explanation overall.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/12/worl ... seals.html

Image
Selection_999(1178).png

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arjay
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Re: Missing Boys in Caves.

Post by arjay » July 14, 2018, 2:48 am

Can I just get this clear. Did they sedate the boys and then put a diver's mask on them with an air supply, and then pull them underwater through the flooded sections, or is the inference that they were in and above the water, but not actually submerged?

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Re: Missing Boys in Caves.

Post by jimjay » July 14, 2018, 3:16 am

arjay wrote:
July 14, 2018, 2:48 am
Can I just get this clear. Did they sedate the boys and then put a diver's mask on them with an air supply, and then pull them underwater through the flooded sections, or is the inference that they were in and above the water, but not actually submerged?
Look at the graphic above by clicking to enlarge (I'm saying this with understanding you already know that, -but others won't). The link I submitted from NY Times actually goes into depth on this too.

There were areas where they were submerged and their air bubbles had to be closely monitored to assure they were breathing etc.

Here's a magnified one of the 6 types of evac that were done.
Selection_999(1180).png
Here's the map from above showing the whole thing, including the totally underwater 2 hour stretch:
Selection_999(1182).png
For anyone interested - Here's the excerpt from a post by one of the Australians, the diving doctor who stayed in the cave with the boys:

https://www.facebook.com/DoctorHarry/po ... 4549599618
Richard Harris is with Craig Challen.

Image
I am sitting in the back of an RAAF C17 on the way back to Australia with Craig and the amazing Australian team members from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Australian Federal Police and Australian Defence Force. I feel like it is the first opportunity to really stop and reflect on the extraordinary events of the past 8 days since Craig and I were deployed as a small AUSMAT team to the rescue in Chang Rai in Northern Thailand.

By the time we arrived on site, local divers like Ben Reymenants and the awesome foursome from Britain (John Volanthen, Rick Stanton, Jason Mallinson and Chris Jewell) had already been doing the most extraordinary dives through the cave and laying the very robust rope which made all subsequent dives to the soccer team not only possible, but safe. The efforts and skill of these guys in blazing this trail cannot be underestimated. Following someone else’s line is very much easier than finding your own way. Rick and John not only found the children and coach alive, but conveyed the gravity of the situation to the rest of the world and thus the rescue started in earnest. The 4 Brits then did further supply dives to the soccer players, the coach and the four Thai Navy Seals which allowed them to prepare and sustain themselves for the rescue ultimately.

Meanwhile on the ground, the Thais and international community sent in swarms of men and women to provide everything from catering, communications, media and of course the huge teams of workers filling the cave with tonnes and tonnes of equipment to try and lower the water and sustain the diving operations. I have never seen anything like it with man battling to control the natural forces of the monsoon waters. Local climbing and rope access workers rigged the dry cave section for that part of the rescue and scoured the bush for more entrances to the cave. Drilling teams attempted to get through nearly a km of rock to the boy’s location. And all this time 4 brave Navy Seals sat with the Wild Boars knowing they were in as much danger as the kids.

When it seemed all other options were exhausted, the decision to swim the players out was made and the rescue went ahead. As the kids came out, the 4 British rescue divers were supported by Craig and I, three other very talented young CDG divers from the UK (Connor, Josh and Jim) and the ͞Euro divers͟ (Erik, Ivan, our good mate Claus and Nikko). The pressure that was put on these guys was immense and they never dropped the ball for a second.

When the kids and coach were delivered to chamber 3, the US pararescue teams, AFP SRG divers, Aussie CD, Chinese divers and Thai Navy and Military medics assessed the kids, then whisked them out of the cave to a field hospital before moving them to the massive hospital in Chang Rai centre. We were lucky to visit the boys, coach and Seals and all the beautiful medical and nursing staff in the hospital on our way home.

I wanted to write this to try and give credit to all the people who were in some way involved. Craig and I have had a spotlight on our efforts and we want to make everyone realise that while we might have become the face of this rescue for some reason, everyone should know that the role we played was no more or less important than all the many hundreds (perhaps thousands) of people I have mentioned. The part we played has been made out to be a lot more noble than it actually was, we just consider ourselves lucky to have had some skills that we could contribute to the wonderful outcome.

Special thanks to the NCCTRC and AUSMAT, DFAT, Australian Embassy Staff in Thailand, the Thai Tourist Police (our protectors!), local liaison, the local cavers. Our heartfelt condolences to the family of ex Navy Seal Saman Gunan who died during the rescue efforts.

At home we must thank our families for dealing with the media and the worry we caused them (they are used to the latter I fear). To MedSTAR and the SA Ambulance Service for the significant assistance and support especially from Drs James Doube and Andrew Pearce. To the team at Specialist Anaesthetic Services for the same. To the Cave Divers Association of Australia for handling the flurry of interest in our sport…the management team there has been amazing especially our best mate John Dalla-Zuanna. To the worldwide community of cavers and divers who have handled themselves with grace and dignity and tried to throw some facts the media’s way occasionally! Finally to the thousands of well-wishers from Thailand and around the world; we promise we have read every message!

Kittanu, Michael, Cameron, Andrew, Glenn, Jo and Grace… sorry to give you so much grief! Legends every one of you. To our new band of brothers; the Aussie, US , UK and Euro/Canadian divers - lifelong friendships and respect.

Harry and Craig

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tamada
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Re: Missing Boys in Caves.

Post by tamada » July 14, 2018, 9:28 am

Great finds and links there jimjay.

Just think of the huge risk the team took when they decided to take the first 4 kids out on this totally untested and purely theoretical plan of escape. The responsibility for those kids lives when one assumes all the risk is huge. Although it appears all risks were well mitigated, there's absolutely no question about the size of the cojones on these guys.

That post-mission debrief by Harry and Craig detailing each participant, individual or team and their precise role in the rescue should put to rest ANY talk about the Thai's or pretty much ANYONE ELSE standing around being superfluous or grandstanding. If their names aren't mentioned, we can take it they weren't involved intimately with the actual rescue.


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maaka
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Re: Missing Boys in Caves.

Post by maaka » July 16, 2018, 6:16 am

Elon Musk calling one of the divers a **** on twitter, after being told to leave the ChiangRai site and to stick his submarine...

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Re: Missing Boys in Caves.

Post by glalt » July 16, 2018, 10:01 am

To attack Musk was a shitty thing to do. There is no doubt in my mind that Musk's heart was in the right place. The fact that he spent a massive amount of effort and money cannot be overlooked. The fact that all the boys came out alive was absolutely amazing.

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Re: Missing Boys in Caves.

Post by neeemu » July 16, 2018, 12:45 pm

Emotions are high and people are exhausted, I can understand why the British diver got pissed off with Musk and his submarine having never gone past the entrance of the cave and understood the complexities of it. Musk's intentions could easily have been misunderstood, which has happened and now resulted in petty and very embarrassing name calling.
It'll all blow over, everyone just needs to focus on the fact the boys are safe and not forget the tragedy that occurred in saving them.

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Barney
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Re: Missing Boys in Caves.

Post by Barney » July 17, 2018, 3:06 pm

There will certainly be a tourist boom with both foreigner and locals massing into the cave complex once the dry seasons returns.
Curiosity to see exactly where it all transpired and the hardships involved in moving through the cave will be a big crowd puller.

Wild Hog T-Shirts will be a gold mine for some enterprising Govt Official.

Hope they control access. You don't need water to have problems in a cave.

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Re: Missing Boys in Caves.

Post by arjay » July 17, 2018, 4:17 pm

Jimjay, Thanks for the comprehensive article.

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Re: Missing Boys in Caves.

Post by Barney » July 24, 2018, 7:53 pm

Aussies given awards for their part in the rescue. Well done to them and the other brave people who ventured into the caves. A result that most of us thought impossible from the 2 poms pushing forward relentlessly in the initial stage to all others till the final extraction.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-24/t ... s/10029542

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Re: Missing Boys in Caves.

Post by mak » September 8, 2018, 7:19 am


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