I spent lunch with a friend today, a friend who just paid all the land bills for his Thai wifes family and dispursed the land among the relatives as they expected his wife got a portion of the land in the deal. He is building a house on the land for the wife that he has no intention of ever living in. Now she has to have a new motorcycle and cute little doggy. Oh yes her sister is buying some more land (going back in debt) so now he is supposed to buy her more land so she can save face.

Now what does he get for this the privailage of living alone a lot of the time. Now even if she is home he gets the privilage of preparing his own meals cleaning the house and doing the laundry. What does she do sleeping nursing her hangover from the village must be a huge village she has been to 20 funerals in the last few months resulting in her over drinking. He also gets to be the ridicule of the village at her direction.

First I have no idea what individual would tolerate being treated like that by anybody much less his wife is beyond me. Secondly where does the mentality come from that all that one does is take in a mariage and never gives.

All the Thia tradtions set aide how can a marriage be based on such a thought proces. Isn't a marriage a life partnership sharing the good and the difficult times, ing to achieve mutual goals the betterment of the family?

The amazing thing is we actually discuss if this kind of behavior is reasonable. Heck no it's not, but yet guys tolerate marriages like this,it's beyond me. What happened to thier self esteem, how could they be sharp enough to get the money to live here and not work, but yet let themselves be belittled by the very person they give the most to.

I can understand the Thai woman doing what he is doing, but if she was a loving person why would she act this way? Why would you want to be in a usery loveless marriage.

What attracted a lot of us to come here was having a loving relationship with a good life partner. There are thousand of women here who would kill for the marriage my wife has. By the way before this goes to far I got the best of the deal. No farrang has to be alone or except being treated badly there are other answers.


I have seen both side in this this, wonderful Thai wifes who really care and do thier absolute best to have a happy loving marriage. But I know at least six guy who have just the opposite, complain all the time and just go back for more.

I just don't understand the thought process on either side of the coin. Can someone enlighten me? I just don't get it

Good question Ray. I think it might be they have not learned the word NO. As I think about that it is not the right answer either. Heck I don't know. I will say this, I have a brother married to a falang here in the states and all I can say is henpecked very bad. Oh well he made the bed and lives with it is the best I can say.

Maybe some of the guys with better education cna answer the question.

I should be an expert here and be able to answer this question rahter easily but can not. I was married to a woman here in USA for quite a long time and we have 2 grown children. The last few years were absolutely horrible. For my work I travel quite a lot and I like this (about to change when Waen arrives or she will travel with me). The last few years we were married she started using crack cocaine and moving in and out of the house. Before I had realized that she was into the crack she had run thru about USD 100,000 and also run up aobut USD $30,000 in credit card debt until I cut off her access to funds and put her on a budget (the judge stuck her with it and required her to get it off my credit report, there is a god). Anyway, she would move out taking everything that she could carry or pawn with her and I would beg her to come home. After a month or two she would come back then one day I would come home to an empty house again and the whole cycle would repeat. All I cansay aobut why I put up with it was that I loved her and she was the mother of my children.

Finally I got tired of this and stopped asking her to come home but always hoped that she would straighten up and come back. I never even thought about getting a divorce until I met Waen and then my mind was made up for me, no going back. I not can explain why I put up with this for so long but it took an outside influence for me to finally say to myself that enough is enough.

[quote="wansman"]I should be an expert here and be able to answer this question rahter easily but can not. I was married to a woman here in USA for quite a long time and we have 2 grown children.

Ok Kids involved yep you do the best you can, I can identify with that the guys I'm thanking have no children.

One of the most classic ones I can think of is a guy who came here, took his bar girl back to the states along with her daughter got married . Then came back her to live, they stayed with us a while until they got settled. Now he is not the nicest guy in the world and has soem baggage of his own,, but not really a bad guy. She seemed OK, just always trying to pump money to the family, he is what you would find in the dictionary if you look up cheap charlie. But takes excellent care of the child private schools the whole nine. The money seemed to be the biggest thing between them.

They spend a year fighting like dogs and cats, he is constatnly insulting her and putting her down, she is constantly digging for money for Mama.

It got to the point where it became physical, nothing that I heard from his side that I know of, but she is throwing things, kicking, punching and biting.

Everyone told him he was going down a very dangersous road, one slip and he put his hands on her and he would more then likely looking for a new country to live in.

He very secretly arranges a new home and is moving out as he is packing his last bag with the new place set up, he looks at her and says you want to go with me.

Now they are in the new house same thing he is contantly putting her down insulting her in public, telling everyone within five feet about his no good bar girl wife. I don't know about the physical side of it, but would be real surprised if it isn't still going on. This is without a destructive relationship. The daughter involved is not his.

Splain that one to me Lucy I just don't get it.

Everybody has disagreements in thier relationships mine included, but I try not to put my wife down at all and she has never done anything pysical in her anger, nor have I.

Most of us are in our fifties or more retired why at this stage in life would you want to remain in any situation that only breeds anger and unhappines.

I could understand being a newbie and just not understanding, but these are not newbies, thye know what is here.

One thing that seem to be common in these reltionships is the husband does not trust his wife with money. Do any of you have realtionship with your life partner where she doesn't have access to family money?

Maybe I'm foolish my wife handles the family budget, it took time for me to be sure he understood about taking care of the financial side of things. After all there is a lot of difference to working a 3000 baht budget and one that is more then 100K a month. Takes time to learn how to handle that. But if I couldn't trust her wiht the budgte, how could I possilby trust her with the aspects of my life that are much important to me then money.

ray23 wrote: First I have no idea what individual would tolerate being treated like that by anybody much less his wife is beyond me. Secondly where does the mentality come from that all that one does is take in a mariage and never gives.

Far from been an answer Ray, but can I just put this into the mix, and then we know why we do not understand perhaps

HE. Perhaps he has burnt his bridges and has no choice but to accept it, or perhaps he is the same as many many women and men who accept abuse in its many various forms, and still stick in a marriage. We do not know his expectations in his marriage, perhaps he expected her to be a timid little thing and it came as a horrible shock to him that this was not so. Unless you know the full story to this, you can never understand his motives.

HER. Sounds like a bad one but lets put that aside. I have a neice, 17, who lives with us in the week so she can go to school in Udon, and then goes home at the weekend or on holidays. In return she helps around the house, cooks for the kids if we are out etc etc and does not need asking to do this. I was talking to her one day, teasing her really, and she would ideally like to marry a farang...we are all very rich, we are all better husbands than a thai man, we will do all the housework and cook meals for her. She knows damn well I do not fit into any of those criteria, and I am, to my knowledge, the only farang she has ever talked to.

Mix those two views together, and maybe, just maybe, the scenario you outlined may be the outcome

yorkman wrote:

ray23 wrote: First I have no idea what individual would tolerate being treated like that by anybody much less his wife is beyond me. Secondly where does the mentality come from that all that one does is take in a mariage and never gives.

Far from been an answer Ray, but can I just put this into the mix, and then we know why we do not understand perhaps

HE. Perhaps he has burnt his bridges and has no choice but to accept it, or perhaps he is the same as many many women and men who accept abuse in its many various forms, and still stick in a marriage. We do not know his expectations in his marriage, perhaps he expected her to be a timid little thing and it came as a horrible shock to him that this was not so. Unless you know the full story to this, you can never understand his motives.

HER. Sounds like a bad one but lets put that aside. I have a neice, 17, who lives with us in the week so she can go to school in Udon, and then goes home at the weekend or on holidays. In return she helps around the house, cooks for the kids if we are out etc etc and does not need asking to do this. I was talking to her one day, teasing her really, and she would ideally like to marry a farang...we are all very rich, we are all better husbands than a thai man, we will do all the housework and cook meals for her. She knows damn well I do not fit into any of those criteria, and I am, to my knowledge, the only farang she has ever talked to.

Mix those two views together, and maybe, just maybe, the scenario you outlined may be the outcome

Your nieces view is exactly the same view that the female college professors had in my class. Didn't phase them a bit that I would not do those things.

I think I'm geeting a piece of the puzzle, the same guy I spoke with yesterday just called. Everyhthing is just wonderful again. Of course he had just put her on a bus to the village I mean he spent a entire day with her husband. This time the drunken son has come back and she has to fix that. There is always something so he doesn't spend time with her husband I think I smell a Thia husband or boyfriend in the mix.

In this case I think the guy likes the drama, may be time to just tell this guy I don't enjoy it and to leave that part of the friendship out, since there is nothing I can say, that would serve any purpose.

ray23 wrote: The money seemed to be the biggest thing between them.

One thing that seem to be common in these reltionships is the husband does not trust his wife with money. Do any of you have realtionship with your life partner where she doesn't have access to family money?

But if I couldn't trust her wiht the budgte, how could I possilby trust her with the aspects of my life that are much important to me then money.

I refuse to let something like money come between Waen and myself unless she started doing something like my ex did. Waen has two ATM cards. One is for the money that I give for her and the other is just a backup. This backup card has access to every cash $ that I have in the bank. I used to have the pin numbers set the same until she lost her purse with the one ATM card inside. After that she told me to have the pin numbers different just in case she were to loose them both at the same time. I can see online when she uses these cards and I check the one that she uses rather frequently to ensure that she always has some money. She told me a while back to not put any money into the card unless she asked for it first or she would get angry with me and not answer my phone calls for 2 weeks. I still make sure that it always has 1-2000 baht at all times just for emergencies. As for the other ATM card, she used it one time after she had had it for about 9 months and all she did was to check the balance and not withdrawal. I never asked her about this and she has not mentioned it either. Actually I think as the pin numbers were set the same that she just put the wrong one in the machine and when she saw the balance she realized that she had put the wrong one in. She has not used is since that day.

ray23 wrote: Maybe I'm foolish my wife handles the family budget, it took time for me to be sure he understood about taking care of the financial side of things.

Trying to tell us something here Ray?

ray23 wrote: I think I smell a Thia husband or boyfriend in the mix

So would I Ray, but heck, what do you really know about what he is like behind closed doors. This is just giving her the benefit of the doubt; coming home with a raging hangover would tell me there is something wrong. Two glasses of Spy, and most I know would be flat out.

ray23 wrote: In this case I think the guy likes the drama, may be time to just tell this guy I don't enjoy it and to leave that part of the friendship out, since there is nothing I can say, that would serve any purpose.

And if you could somehow magically fix their problems you run the risk of being the bad guy who sided with the husband. She does not like you, for the sake of peace he drops you. Suddenly one friend down. You are wise, best keep out of it!!

John

yorkman wrote:

ray23 wrote: I think I smell a Thia husband or boyfriend in the mix

So would I Ray, but heck, what do you really know about what he is like behind closed doors. This is just giving her the benefit of the doubt; coming home with a raging hangover would tell me there is something wrong. Two glasses of Spy, and most I know would be flat out.

ray23 wrote: In this case I think the guy likes the drama, may be time to just tell this guy I don't enjoy it and to leave that part of the friendship out, since there is nothing I can say, that would serve any purpose.

And if you could somehow magically fix their problems you run the risk of being the bad guy who sided with the husband. She does not like you, for the sake of peace he drops you. Suddenly one friend down. You are wise, best keep out of it!!

John

What was trying to say about the banking realtioship are about trut at least for me, if I couldn't trust my wife I wouldn't be with her.

The Thai boyfriend I have intersting way to look at that aspect with this guy and anyone else, he is not stupid he must have thought about this a long time a go, if it's OK with him it's certainly OK me.

No I don't want to step in, to be honest she is not a friend she is rude and obnoxious, I like the guy very intelligent man and great person to talk with. So I just limit my contact to him. I will not put myself in a position to have to confront his wife I jut don't go there. I think that is what suprises me so much I know how sharp this guy is and yet he buys off on being treated badly. The why is what I'm trying to understand. Just color me confused on this one.

It's not the first time I have been confused on this, When I was cop we had one house that we went to about three times a week for domestic violence, this wa befoer the current laws were in place. Not a lot we could do unless one of them did something in front of us. Just talk them into seperating for the night, probably why were were there only three days a week, The off day they were apart. This went on for three years and finally she shot and killed him. This can be very dangerous stuff. I didn't understand that either.

You know I wnet through a 14 year marriage that had it's ups and downs as mot do the lat six months the wife became very destructive and insulting towards me, She had a boyfriend on the side and he was Mr. perfect, she disn't last two years with him. But the point is I tried very hard because of my two daughters. But it hit that juncture where it was very destructive. It was hard to leave my children and all that I had built up for 14 years, but I did it. Why not becasue I didn't care or I was macho, it was destructive for everyone involved.

God this is so funny just have a e-mail arriving form that very lady right now. I don't hate her, she maintians contact when she has problems you see I am the only person she trusts to this day to be truthful with her. Ironic isn't it. I would never live with her again because of the trust, without it there really isn't much to hold a realtionship together. That you can't get in a casual, one night stand. In my mind when it turns destructive and can't be worked out honestly, there is no joy or love anyone involved any longer..

I can't remember the guy who was a marriage councelor ( where is spell check when you need it ) on the forum, I'm willing to bet he has some confusion on this one.

I guess it really surprises me to se this in a Land of Smiles and Mia Bpen Lia, much more the it did in the States.

Sorry guys usually it's typing but spelling has really escaped me this morning,.

he is not stupid he must have thought about this a long time a go, if it's OK with him it's certainly OK me.

No I don't want to step in, to be honest she is not a friend she is rude and obnoxious, I like the guy very intelligent man and great person to talk with. So I just limit my contact to him. I will not put myself in a position to have to confront his wife I jut don't go there. I think that is what suprises me so much I know how sharp this guy is and yet he buys off on being treated badly. The why is what I'm trying to understand. Just color me confused on this one.

Though don't you think that sometimes people who live with these things close up, everyday,....don't see them. It may be obvious to those outside, at a distance, so to speak, but when you are close up and involved every day, you don't always see it for what it is.

I lived with a TGF for some years, who I came realise was "jai rawn", very tempremental (spelling?), moody and prone to aggressive outbursts, and it took some time for me to realise this. I would think, this must be normal thai style. Friends would say to me, "If I had a GF like that I would show her the door". Or, "there's plenty more fish in the sea, get rid of her and find yourself another one".

When I did realise, I compromised with myself, by saying, Ok she's a bit tempremental, but she is very honest and that can be hard to find in Thai women, so I hung in there. It was only when she starting hitting me, threatening me with knives and scissors and attacking innocent people I was with, that I eventually concluded that enough was enough, and decided that I had to move on.

I think if I had a friend who I thought was being cheated or mis-treated, I would try and point it out to him, albeit by slowly rationalising with him, pointing out examples of this and that, making comparisons with other people, and things that would help him to see it for what it was. Though I do take the point that he may not want to hear it and if he made that very clear, then ok I would drop it..... Up to him. But I would certainly try, first.

I think if I had a friend who I thought was being cheated or mis-treated, I would try and point it out to him, albeit by slowly rationalising with him, pointing out examples of this and that, making comparisons with other people, and things that would help him to see it for what it was. Though I do take the point that he may not want to hear it and if he made that very clear, then ok I would drop it..... Up to him. But I would certainly try, first.[/quote]

Yep your right.

Now lets take this one step forward, do you think when Thai women see other Thai women abusing thier husband, that this is the norm and it's Ok ?

I have tired to discreetly lead the horse to water. We were on a ride and a beautiful school teacher was hitting on him like there was no tomorrow. Didn't even get a phone number, or any contact information. You could see he was loving the attention. When I asked him why he didn't pursue it further, it doesn't happen everyday that you get a well educated beautiful woman hitting on you here His answer I don't want to get in trouble. I didn't say a word but in my heart I felt like saying man you can't get anymore trouble then your already in

How any times have you heard a Thai woman say to her husband when a conflict comes up " I get new man" You know that is a very hurtful thing to say to someone. Said in either direction.

Now lets look at that a bit, we have a woman who has adult children. Think a Thia man on any stature is going to marry her nd welcome all her past baggage. I think we all know the answer to that one. How many farrangs are available and want to get married? So where is this new man coming from? I'm thankful that my wife has never said that to me. She has gotten angry and said a lot of things but not that one.

Now lets look at the other side of the coin, there isn't a guy who can't have a woman in her 20's here if it's just about money. If the marriage is just about money, why in the world would you drive a sedan when you can have the corvette at the same price.

So the guys who are in abusive relationships definetly have options. This ain't Kansas Todo.

How many times have you heard Thai women say I want farrang man, how many activley pursue this, how many go to internt shop each day to the search?

So if you took it no further then the logic of the money why destroy what you wanted so baddly in the first place.

By the way guys as sharp as you guys are if you can't understand it I gave up on that one. Now I'm looking for a lively excahnge of thoughts.

I lived with a TGF for some years, who I came realise was "jai rawn", very tempremental (spelling?), moody and prone to aggressive outbursts

We all have different levels of tolerance and what some will take is too much for others.If my wife screamed and shouted at me i would not find it acceptable.I would show her the door.She feels the same way about such behaviour.Ray asks why the guy above accepts things,but i am as mystified as to why Ray would accept his wife screaming at him.I love Thais for their calm,placid nature and for the efforts they take not to argue and have rows.

My wife's family are devout Buddhists and i have never ever heard a voice raised in anger in nearly a decade.That's why i decided to come and live here.If they sat around drinking lao khao and shouting at each other i would be on my way.If a want aggression i can always go home to the UK.

Hi Ray, I'm the marriage counsellor guy. now let me start by saying, I am wise enough and mature enough to understand the difference between a remark uttered in anger, or indeed frustration and a considered remark that truly expresses ones intentions. So I wasn't fazed by wifes" I'll find a new man" comment.Both she and I know she wouldn't get much for trading me in and the new model may turn out to be less reliable.
Now back to your point that if a man has the money to live here, he must be reasonably intelligent having been able to earn a good living, how can he act so stupid?The first point I will make is the vital organ that controls intelligence is located between the ears. The one that controls the emotions and therefore the behaviour of these hapless men, is located somewhat lower down. In a normal human being the brain which is normally dominant controls destuctive tendecys., but when the urge to procreate with a pretty girl comes to the fore an over abundance of hormones is produced which tends to overwhelm the brains normal caution.
Although I have written this in humour the scientific explanation is basically fact.

valentine wrote:Hi Ray, I'm the marriage counsellor guy. now let me start by saying, I am wise enough and mature enough to understand the difference between a remark uttered in anger, or indeed frustration and a considered remark that truly expresses ones intentions. So I wasn't fazed by wifes" I'll find a new man" comment.Both she and I know she wouldn't get much for trading me in and the new model may turn out to be less reliable.
Now back to your point that if a man has the money to live here, he must be reasonably intelligent having been able to earn a good living, how can he act so stupid?The first point I will make is the vital organ that controls intelligence is located between the ears. The one that controls the emotions and therefore the behaviour of these hapless men, is located somewhat lower down. In a normal human being the brain which is normally dominant controls destuctive tendecys., but when the urge to procreate with a pretty girl comes to the fore an over abundance of hormones is produced which tends to overwhelm the brains normal caution.
Although I have written this in humour the scientific explanation is basically fact.

I think that Valetine has answered the other question why Ray accepts it and her yelling is usually like a church mouse LOL. More often then not I have asked for it. When things have gotten to crazy, one time, I laid 40K on the table and told her to leave. That was a reality check. Problem was I wasn't playing, I was totaly prepared to be one again. Not because she is a bad person, because I want peace my life where I can get it. No one should ever in my mind go that length, unless they have thought it through and are willing to accept what goes with it. But thats just me.

The trading in issue is as norm isn't that big of deal depending on the circumstances it is said in and who is on the recieving end. On my end not an acceptable way to argue. As this reciever believes that you say that to me then you had probaly be ready to follow through. My wife understands that. The one paticular lady that comes to mind, it's her national past time and in front of everyone of the guy friends. She stepped over the line one time and told my wife that she should find a new man. Why because I didn't want to go to the night market with them. Friends wife or not she got a ear full.

Please understand I don't fly off the handle except on the forum, no harm no foil here not one gets hurt. Truth is I take a lot before I ever say anything, to hurt someones feelings. I will walk away if at all possible and just not associate with the people any longer.

But if pushed yes I will get down and as dirty as anyone, just don't like it. Matter fact if that happens most people are in a state of shock that I reacted. But interfering in my marriage in any form I do not accept unless it is invited

Yep understand thinking with the wrong organ, gets us all in trouble at sometime or another, but is that a valid reason here? thats the easiest thing to get taken care of.

By the way not disagreeing with anyone just wanted to get the grey matter working, mine that is.