I don't think with Italy it's as simple as just stopping the boats of immigrants unfortunately.
Italy has a massive debt problem with the European commission, IMF and European central bank the same institutions that are not surprisingly globalist's in there vision controlling this debt.
Unlike the threats made to Eastern European countries within the EU block for not accepting migrants Italy is in a position not so dissimilar to Greece, if they don't do as they are told by the dictatorship of the EU then the economy of Italy is easily manipulated.
We may see the economic crisis that Greece is in being imposed on Italy time will tell on how that plays out.

christian_2013 wrote: ↑

June 27, 2018, 8:20 am

I don't think with Italy it's as simple as just stopping the boats of immigrants unfortunately.
Italy has a massive debt problem with the European commission, IMF and European central bank the same institutions that are not surprisingly globalist's in there vision controlling this debt.
Unlike the threats made to Eastern European countries within the EU block for not accepting migrants Italy is in a position not so dissimilar to Greece, if they don't do as they are told by the dictatorship of the EU then the economy of Italy is easily manipulated.
We may see the economic crisis that Greece is in being imposed on Italy time will tell on how that plays out.

Agree.

And it only shows what a mess the EU has become. They can't treat everyone the same with the same consequences because there's no way that every country is the same regarding their contributions, wants, needs, cultures, societies, successes, failures. It's just another example of why socialism has never been sustainable.

Now lets look at what was said from another point of view

"They can't treat everyone the same with the same consequences because there's no way that every "country/state/province" is the same regarding their contributions, wants, needs, cultures, societies, successes, failures. It's just another example of why socialism has never been sustainable"

By replacing the word Country with the word State or Province this statement applies to all cultures/countries
Every country has different areas that contribute different things and have different problems.

This is NOT a socialism problem by any means

Doodoo wrote: ↑

June 27, 2018, 9:53 am

Now lets look at what was said from another point of view

"They can't treat everyone the same with the same consequences because there's no way that every "country/state/province" is the same regarding their contributions, wants, needs, cultures, societies, successes, failures. It's just another example of why socialism has never been sustainable"

By replacing the word Country with the word State or Province this statement applies to all cultures/countries
Every country has different areas that contribute different things and have different problems.

This is NOT a socialism problem by any means

Where socialism is concerned, it is always true and always a socialism problem.

In a constitutional republic that has a separation of powers -- like the US -- the states have freedoms and autonomy that are not controlled by the federal government -- as it is in the EU. The EU attempts to control almost everything, and even bringing great harm to many European societies.

Specifically, where immigration is concerned in the US, the federal government controls immigration for the BENEFIT of each of the states equally. In the EU, their allowance of mass immigration is viewed as a great RISK by many of the countries, and now the EU seeks to penalize countries that do not want the risk to their citizens. Huge difference.

Dissimilar cultures, languages, values make for an unbalanced relationship. Precisely why the EU is a tenuous, fragile association. Originally designed to compete with the superior US economy, the EU lacks synergy, loyalty, and backbone. By removing individual countries' fiscal options through the common currency, the weaker PIIGS are now hamstrung and have become defacto slave-states to Germany and France. The EU will certainly fail.

Agreed, this isn’t a problem caused by Socialism it’s rather a problem caused by Globalism, a bloc like the EU is bound to fail because of each countries different economic requirements, it’s impossible to control Greece or Italy’s economy using the same economic factors as Germany’s. Unemployment for example has proven to be a huge problem for Greece, particularly among young people, industrial output has been high in Germany but lower in Italy and Spain and add to this the cultural and work ethic differences and controlling a Global European Economy is all but impossible. Had the bloc remained a trading partnership I’m sure it would have been a huge success, each country could have kept control of its currency, their interest rates and currencies and hence their own economies, the Euro was important but it should have remained a common trading currency like the ECU. Unfortunately the unelected presidents of the EU etc aren’t content with this scenario and are pushing for a mega state, it will NEVER work.

Also why ASEAN is doomed to chronic, futile purposelessness. Other than a loose geographic tie, what do Singapore and Laos have in common? Practically nothing. (same could be said for the United Nations, too)

vincemunday wrote: ↑

June 27, 2018, 10:18 am

Agreed, this isn’t a problem caused by Socialism it’s rather a problem caused by Globalism, a bloc like the EU is bound to fail because of each countries different economic requirements, it’s impossible to control Greece or Italy’s economy using the same economic factors as Germany’s. Unemployment for example has proven to be a huge problem for Greece, particularly among young people, industrial output has been high in Germany but lower in Italy and Spain and add to this the cultural and work ethic differences and controlling a Global European Economy is all but impossible. Had the bloc remained a trading partnership I’m sure it would have been a huge success, each country could have kept control of its currency, their interest rates and currencies and hence their own economies, the Euro was important but it should have remained a common trading currency like the ECU. Unfortunately the unelected presidents of the EU etc aren’t content with this scenario and are pushing for a mega state, it will NEVER work.

My reference to socialism is mainly due in part to stronger and more successful countries having to pick up the slack for the less productive and less fiscally responsible.

Globalism is at the heart, and what is globalism really? The removal of the individual from the equation and looking only at what's best for the group. Putting the group before the individual. Putting the group of nation states ahead of the needs of any individual nation state. That is basically what socialism demands of its followers.

Giggle made a great point, and I agree with him also.

Dissimilar cultures, languages, values make for an unbalanced relationship.

In most unified groups (the US and Canada as examples), all of those components are basically the same. An umbrella of one currency -- the euro -- doesn't solve those component issues for the EU.

vincemunday wrote: ↑

June 27, 2018, 10:18 am

. . . Had the bloc remained a trading partnership I’m sure it would have been a huge success, each country could have kept control of its currency, their interest rates and currencies and hence their own economies, the Euro was important but it should have remained a common trading currency like the ECU. . . .

I agree with this completely, vm.

The nation states have given up control of their own societies and losing their cultures and values.

The most important factor in the US is language you all speak Americanish and you share a common culture. We have to consider that most of Europe has spent thousands of years beating the livings out of each other, the cultures of each country are quite unique despite being neighbours.

I love this kid... https://youtu.be/Q8pNh6LqFh8

vincemunday wrote: ↑

June 27, 2018, 10:36 am

The most important factor in the US is language you all speak Americanish and you share a common culture. We have to consider that most of Europe has spent thousands of years beating the livings out of each other, the cultures of each country are quite unique despite being neighbours.

Agree with that assessment too. History is not on the side of the EU either.

Vince
The video of the young lady who in her mind is an English/American Language Professor is GREAT

I don't think she has been outside that room where she is sitting for a long long time

Is the EU being controlled to fail to make way for globalist world government?
We all know that our individual countries continually hand over it's sovereignty to the UN.
I'm sure most people don't deny the existence of the globalist's now, so that leads me to ask the question if the EU fails is this by design for the end goal of global government?

Sort of disagree with you here Christian, the UN has had some pretty bad press lately and it’s credibility has been knocked, I absolutely 100% disagree that we’ve handed our sovereignty over to them.

christian_2013 wrote: ↑

June 27, 2018, 1:52 pm

Is the EU being controlled to fail to make way for globalist world government?
We all know that our individual countries continually hand over it's sovereignty to the UN.
I'm sure most people don't deny the existence of the globalist's now, so that leads me to ask the question if the EU fails is this by design for the end goal of global government?

SOME countries have handed over their sovereignty to the UN, but as vm stated, the UN is struggling in popularity lately; but they've been struggling in many ways for a long, long time. I view the UN as useless, toothless and biased in their globalist, socialist views. The US recently resigned from the hypocritical UN Human Rights Council, and I wouldn't care if there was a decision to leave the UN entirely.

I would hope that if the USA left the un they would pay the $1.3 Billion owe in dues prior to leaving

AS for leaving the Human Rights Council this is somewhat like quitting if you just don't like the game rather than buckling down and solving the issues

I like this new Salvini guy in Italy -- a LOT.

Salvini believes that the EU will struggle in its current form -- which is what this discussion is all about. Salvini doesn't deny what he sees with his own eyes.

Salvini isn't happy about other nations putting pressure on him to do what is not good for Italy.

“It’s not just about the budget for the next seven years. Next year will see new European Parliament elections. Within one year, we will see if a united Europe still exists or if it doesn’t.”

Salvini's views make him and his party a leader in Italian public opinion.

Salvini doesn't talk to Merkel about it. He talks to Seehofer, who shares his migration views. Although the two men disagree on the issue of sending migrants back from Germany to Italy, they agree on a harder stance on migrants generally and securing the bloc’s external borders. Salvini also isn't afraid to point out France's hypocrisy in the whole issue.

Greece and Portugal struggle carrying their financial weight in the EU. The Eastern bloc countries want their autonomy. Italy joins that autonomy fight. The UK bolted already. Merkel is unpopular and may be knocked off of her perch. If she's replaced with a Populist/Nationalist, the whole EU will be in trouble. It's a mess.

From an interview with George Soros May 30, 2018, emphasis mine

"Billionaire investor George Soros believes that Europe is in the midst of a crisis and is at genuine risk of ceasing to exist as we currently know it, unless drastic changes are made.

"The European Union is mired in an existential crisis,"Soros wrote in a blog for Project Syndicate."For the past decade, everything that could go wrong has gone wrong."

Soros effectively argues that some in the bloc has moved so far away from its founding goals that the EU can no longer sustain itself in its current state.

"There is no longer any point in ignoring the reality that a number of European Union member countries have explicitly rejected the EU's goal of "ever closer union'."

The last 10 years have been crucial in this shift, Soros said:

"Since the financial crisis of 2008, the EU seems to have lost its way. It adopted a program of fiscal retrenchment, which led to the euro crisis and transformed the eurozone into a relationship between creditors and debtors. The creditors set the conditions that the debtors had to meet, yet could not meet. This created a relationship that was neither voluntary nor equal – the very opposite of the credo on which the EU was based.

"As a result, many young people today regard the EU as an enemy that has deprived them of jobs and a secure and promising future. Populist politicians exploited the resentments and formed anti-European parties and movements."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/ ... -the-brink

Lone Star wrote: ↑

June 28, 2018, 8:51 am

christian_2013 wrote: ↑

June 27, 2018, 1:52 pm

Is the EU being controlled to fail to make way for globalist world government?
We all know that our individual countries continually hand over it's sovereignty to the UN.
I'm sure most people don't deny the existence of the globalist's now, so that leads me to ask the question if the EU fails is this by design for the end goal of global government?

SOME countries have handed over their sovereignty to the UN, but as vm stated, the UN is struggling in popularity lately; but they've been struggling in many ways for a long, long time. I view the UN as useless, toothless and biased in their globalist, socialist views. The US recently resigned from the hypocritical UN Human Rights Council, and I wouldn't care if there was a decision to leave the UN entirely.

I totally agree Lone Star the UN is useless and I would support leaving the UN totally myself. But that will never happen for one important reason the power to veto any decisions made.
I have never said that we have handed over our sovereignty completely, it has been a gradual step by step slow march like cultural Marxism has been the long march, that's why you are only seeing push back of the UN in recent years BUT the NGO organisations are firmly in place, in all major cities throughout the world (even our host country) pushing the UN agenda with little pushback, most people don't even know what the Agenda's are i.e. Agenda 21 and Agenda 2030 not to mention the treaties that have been signed or human rights council.
I'm anti-globalist but despite the political theatre happening around us to distract us, the agenda's of the UN continue to move forward, it's not stopping.
China's one belt one road not stopping
As far as any leader in the EU pushing back against the migrant invasion good for them, but he who controls the money controls the world.
IMHO the EU is in a mess on purpose it's a controlled failure (chaos) everything happens for a reason. Out of chaos we will see a NWO immerging, where have we heard that before?

christian_2013 wrote: ↑

June 28, 2018, 11:11 am

. . . it has been a gradual step by step slow march like cultural Marxism has been the long march, that's why you are only seeing push back of the UN in recent years
. . .

Yep. That's how Marxists work.