TAX on Income from Abroad

[anefarious1]

I do believe, at this point, there is enough guidance from the Thai Revenue Department to plan ahead and possibly minimize any tax burden.

That is true for those who have no foreign income.

However I think the majority do have either foreign income or foreign funds being remitted into Thailand and for them they need to study the details of their DTA and the Thai treatment of funds remitted.

You can have very substantial foreign income and pay no tax in Thailand at all, but it depends on if you have savings. Simply to do not bring the income into Thailand if you live here. Bringing in the savings would be the smart move.

I mean... I don't know how else to say it.

For those who continue to say we know nothing about how this is going to play out and it is all speculation and guessing, please disregard this message! I can only assume that either you have minimal or no savings in your home country and rely on a pension to get by or you cannot be bothered to understand the details.

For those with any real savings in your home country (few Udon expats, I know), you can bury your head in the sand waiting for some high authority to spell it out for you (won't happen). I think the idiom, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink" applies here.

[newtovillagelife]

I do believe, at this point, there is enough guidance from the Thai Revenue Department to plan ahead and possibly minimize any tax burden.

That is true for those who have no foreign income.

However I think the majority do have either foreign income or foreign funds being remitted into Thailand and for them they need to study the details of their DTA and the Thai treatment of funds remitted.

You can have very substantial foreign income and pay no tax in Thailand at all, but it depends on if you have savings. Simply to do not bring the income into Thailand if you live here. Bringing in the savings would be the smart move.

I mean... I don't know how else to say it.

For those who continue to say we know nothing about how this is going to play out and it is all speculation and guessing, please disregard this message! I can only assume that either you have minimal or no savings in your home country and rely on a pension to get by or you cannot be bothered to understand the details.

For those with any real savings in your home country (few Udon expats, I know), you can bury your head in the sand waiting for some high authority to spell it out for you (won't happen). I think the idiom, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink" applies here.

Where is it stated 'Savings' are not taxable.

[glalt]

I still have my untouched nest egg in my US bank. I also had a substantial balance in my expendable savings account. I did put a large dent in that account by buying a nice condo in the farang ghetto of Jomtien and depositing the 800,000 baht in my Thai bank. As it is now, I have a very comfortable surplus from my US pensions and spend far less than what I get from my pensions. I wire transfer money from my expendable savings account as needed, once or twice a year. It cost US $45.00 for the transfer fee so I avoid transfers until I actually need the money. My last wire transfer was quite substantial about a year ago. I doubt I will need another transfer in 2024.

Added; I have absolutely no investments and my only income is from my pensions.I fired my overpriced ripoff accounting firm and closed out my 401K account several years ago. I still do file a US tax return every year and the fee for that is $70 US per year, That fee is a fraction of what the accounting firm was charging me. I sleep well knowing exactly what I have and being able to access it whenever I want.

[tamada]

I do believe, at this point, there is enough guidance from the Thai Revenue Department to plan ahead and possibly minimize any tax burden.

That is true for those who have no foreign income.

However I think the majority do have either foreign income or foreign funds being remitted into Thailand and for them they need to study the details of their DTA and the Thai treatment of funds remitted.

You can have very substantial foreign income and pay no tax in Thailand at all, but it depends on if you have savings. Simply to do not bring the income into Thailand if you live here. Bringing in the savings would be the smart move.

I mean... I don't know how else to say it.

For those who continue to say we know nothing about how this is going to play out and it is all speculation and guessing, please disregard this message! I can only assume that either you have minimal or no savings in your home country and rely on a pension to get by or you cannot be bothered to understand the details.

For those with any real savings in your home country (few Udon expats, I know), you can bury your head in the sand waiting for some high authority to spell it out for you (won't happen). I think the idiom, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink" applies here.

Sounds like you are panicking on behalf of those who aren't panicking.

[sometimewoodworker]

Where is it stated 'Savings' are not taxable.

The correct question should be “ Where is it stated that Savings' are taxable”

The tax is on income generated after 1/1/2024
It does not reference money transfered as taxable (though the RD may claim tax on it and require you to prove it isn’t taxable and claim back from them)

So if you have a large enough amount accrued before 1/1/2024 and can prove that there was no income added to it after 1/1 it’s savings and comes in tax free (the revenue department may require proof)

If however you do not segregate money after 1/1 then you are going to have a tough time proving that it wasn’t income/rents/capital gains/dividends/pension all of which are taxable

[anefarious1]

Where is it stated 'Savings' are not taxable.

The correct question should be “ Where is it stated that Savings' are taxable”

The tax is on income generated after 1/1/2024
It does not reference money transfered as taxable (though the RD may claim tax on it and require you to prove it isn’t taxable and claim back from them)

So if you have a large enough amount accrued before 1/1/2024 and can prove that there was no income added to it after 1/1 it’s savings and comes in tax free (the revenue department may require proof)

If however you do not segregate money after 1/1 then you are going to have a tough time proving that it wasn’t income/rents/capital gains/dividends/pension all of which are taxable

Wow where did you get this idea? You've come full circle. You went from alluding to this being a form of tax evasion several days ago to now recommending it as a way to prove incoming funds are savings.

I see even glalt had his eureka moment! You are welcome you stubborn geezers

[Khun Paul]

Ah the speculation and supposition and educated guesswork plus the conspiracy working well, petty arguments about what will or not be taxed, plus other weird ideas that may or may not affect some or all.

Bottom line if the Thai tax experts do not know anyone on here is just talking for the sake of talking creating chaos and mayhem .e
Do none of you have patience or prepared to wait until a definitive set of instructions issued so we can all follow or . I sought expert advice and wait and see was the best advice and then we get told by some , it is out there already/ Bottom line the statement was so loose that it could mean all income or some or none depending on how and what and where from.
Any7 so-called THAI Tax expert on here care to expand and tell the truth or are you all just operating under false impressions that you expect us to believe some of the stuff you write is factual and well proven.....EH ???

[sometimewoodworker]

Where is it stated 'Savings' are not taxable.

The correct question should be “ Where is it stated that Savings' are taxable”

The tax is on income generated after 1/1/2024
It does not reference money transfered as taxable (though the RD may claim tax on it and require you to prove it isn’t taxable and claim back from them)

So if you have a large enough amount accrued before 1/1/2024 and can prove that there was no income added to it after 1/1 it’s savings and comes in tax free (the revenue department may require proof)

If however you do not segregate money after 1/1 then you are going to have a tough time proving that it wasn’t income/rents/capital gains/dividends/pension all of which are taxable

Wow where did you get this idea? You've come full circle. You went from alluding to this being a form of tax evasion several days ago to now recommending it as a way to prove incoming funds are savings.

As far as I know I have posted nothing contradictory.

It seems that you have either found something/s or misinterpreted a post or posts

I would welcome your posting quotes showing where there is either an inconsistency or that you think there is an inconsistency. I strive to not be mistaken, I usually acknowledge mistakes

[anefarious1]

Ah the speculation and supposition and educated guesswork plus the conspiracy working well, petty arguments about what will or not be taxed, plus other weird ideas that may or may not affect some or all.

Bottom line if the Thai tax experts do not know anyone on here is just talking for the sake of talking creating chaos and mayhem .e
Do none of you have patience or prepared to wait until a definitive set of instructions issued so we can all follow or . I sought expert advice and wait and see was the best advice and then we get told by some , it is out there already/ Bottom line the statement was so loose that it could mean all income or some or none depending on how and what and where from.
Any7 so-called THAI Tax expert on here care to expand and tell the truth or are you all just operating under false impressions that you expect us to believe some of the stuff you write is factual and well proven.....EH ???

Why do you come to this thread if you are convinced nothing should be discussed because nothing is yet known? What is certain is that you have nothing to contribute here. All you do is complain about people discussing an important tax change that is already in effect. There are absolutely enough pertinent details available to intelligently discuss this issue, but you are dead set against doing so. Solution? Stop visiting here and do your whingeing on another thread.

@sometimewoodworker No need. At least you advance the understanding of this issue unlike the constant complainers.

[sometimewoodworker]

@sometimewoodworker No need. At least you advance the understanding of this issue unlike the constant complainers.

Thank you

However you rather confuse me with the statement

Wow where did you get this idea? You've come full circle. You went from alluding to this being a form of tax evasion several days ago to now recommending it as a way to prove incoming funds are savings.

That was directed at me, and the sentiments above

Was it that the quote was incorrect and the statement applies to someone else and their arguments?

[anefarious1]

@sometimewoodworker No need. At least you advance the understanding of this issue unlike the constant complainers.

Thank you

However you rather confuse me with the statement

Wow where did you get this idea? You've come full circle. You went from alluding to this being a form of tax evasion several days ago to now recommending it as a way to prove incoming funds are savings.

That was directed at me, and the sentiments above

Was it that the quote was incorrect and the statement applies to someone else and their arguments?

On March 1st you wrote, "There is a big difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion.
Quite a few are recommending and suggesting ways for tax evasion, I don’t and won’t."

And I assumed, I guess wrongly, you were referring to me floating the idea of segregating accounts. You never commented about this perhaps being a good strategy until yesterday when you wrote about it without acknowledging how this concept came to be introduced here. Anyway, it's all water under the bridge. Doesn't matter. You seem to be the authority here so if you say it and it helps some folks then that's great.

I do believe that vague and/or veiled comments, rather than commenting directly about ideas and issues, are not at all useful. I am still waiting to hear from khun paul what his accountant friend is laughing about. Actually he's on ignore now because he doesn't contribute anything useful. He writes "I do love the way that many people, most of whom have ZERO clues about the actual situation spout theories coupled with absolute rubbish." Now that is rubbish and so ironic because he is talking about himself.

On another topic I do disagree with you regarding earning income on cash in the west vs. keeping money in Thailand earning much less interest. I'm getting like 30,000 USD in yearly interest, FDIC insured vs what would be approximately 6,000 USD here in Thailand. Even with a high tax rate and other fees it makes a lot more sense to keep the funds stateside. Not a wash, not even close.

[Whistler]

Some sound advice when you do lodge your 2024 tax return

[sometimewoodworker]

On March 1st you wrote, "There is a big difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion.
Quite a few are recommending and suggesting ways for tax evasion, I don’t and won’t."

And I assumed, I guess wrongly, you were referring to me floating the idea of segregating accounts. You never commented about this perhaps being a good strategy until yesterday when you wrote about it without acknowledging how this concept came to be introduced here.

Segregated accounts is a perfectly reasonable strategy and makes isolating income generating items from non income items reasonably easy.

Since I have been doing exactly that since November 2023 I saw no need to acknowledge a concept that is blindingly obvious to anyone who has a reasonable understanding of the way the system works. It has become clear that a number of posters hear are finding it more complex than nuclear physics

From the post above you may have taken that because I didn't comment I considered your ideas as tax evasion, mostly I don't actually see your posts unless I click the disclosure button, I would likely have commented if it seemed a tax evasion strategy

You seem to be the authority here so if you say it and it helps some folks then that's great.

I have no idea why I should be considered an authority. I certainly don't suggest that quite the opposite.

On another topic I do disagree with you regarding earning income on cash in the west vs. keeping money in Thailand earning much less interest. I'm getting like 30,000 USD in yearly interest, FDIC insured vs what would be approximately 6,000 USD here in Thailand. Even with a high tax rate and other fees it makes a lot more sense to keep the funds stateside. Not a wash, not even close.

From the above you must have a safe way of generating around a 15% return. Returnes that high are are not usually ongoing or repeatable, if you are abe to get that amount the it is likely to be slightly greater than the Thai tax.

The actual gain from overseas investment as opposed to Thai investment needs to be over 10%~13% depending on the various DTAs.
But this is getting into territory where competent knowledge and advice is required

[Bandung_Dero]

Seems a lot of you guys are disclosing your personal finances in a public forum which still has no answers!
WTF are you thinking about??

[Khun Paul]

Ah the speculation and supposition and educated guesswork plus the conspiracy working well, petty arguments about what will or not be taxed, plus other weird ideas that may or may not affect some or all.

Bottom line if the Thai tax experts do not know anyone on here is just talking for the sake of talking creating chaos and mayhem .e
Do none of you have patience or prepared to wait until a definitive set of instructions issued so we can all follow or . I sought expert advice and wait and see was the best advice and then we get told by some , it is out there already/ Bottom line the statement was so loose that it could mean all income or some or none depending on how and what and where from.
Any7 so-called THAI Tax expert on here care to expand and tell the truth or are you all just operating under false impressions that you expect us to believe some of the stuff you write is factual and well proven.....EH ???

Why do you come to this thread if you are convinced nothing should be discussed because nothing is yet known? What is certain is that you have nothing to contribute here. All you do is complain about people discussing an important tax change that is already in effect. There are absolutely enough pertinent details available to intelligently discuss this issue, but you are dead set against doing so. Solution? Stop visiting here and do your whingeing on another thread.

@sometimewoodworker No need. At least you advance the understanding of this issue unlike the constant complainers.

I like many other tell it as I see it. I sought expert advice , stating that is ot whinging or complaining. However as you are setting yourself up tp be the TAX expert, speak words of wisdom. But any advice you offer should be taken with a grain of salt plus insults for you would upset me IF I valued your opinion !!

[vincemunday]

Has anyone heard about the Thai government's intention to tax all money transferred here by foreigners by 15%? This can/will be collected in hindsight "in two or three years time"...

I'm interested to hear people's interpretation of this new law

This seems VERY harsh but perhaps inevitable.


https://youtu.be/ucqfSZWsj18?si=nE9oB8ZcYW_IVlax

[vincemunday]

Apparently this issue reared its ugly head about 3 years ago and they're not really making a big thing about it now because we were warned back then?

[jackspratt]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55064

[vincemunday]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55064

Thanks for the link, appreciated.

[sometimewoodworker]

Has anyone heard about the Thai government's intention to tax all money transferred here by foreigners by 15%? This can/will be collected in hindsight "in two or three years time"...

I'm interested to hear people's interpretation of this new law

This seems VERY harsh but perhaps inevitable.

This is hardly news. The rules were announced in September 2023 modified in November 2023
It is not “the Thai government's intention to tax all money transferred here by foreigners by 15%?”
It is “the Thai government's intention to tax all income transferred into Thailand from 2024” do please note the difference in wording that is vitally important.
It is that income of any kind brought into Thailand from 1 January 2014 will be taxed with the same rules as income earned in Thailand with rates from 0% to a maximum of 35%

There are various allowances that will reduce your taxable total income, ranging from life insurance to charitable donations, those along with your countries dual taxation agreement may reduce you taxable income to zero.

The fact that the majority of foreigners (not evading taxes) are taxed in their home countries and so due to double taxation agreements will likely pay nothing demonstrates that the intended targets (the wealthy Thai citizens) are the ones who will be paying the 35% tax