Careful what you wish for

[tamada]

So this guy gets the death sentence for murder. When it's time for his lethal injection, they can't find a vein, so it's postponed. Guy decides that death by nitrogen is OK as the nasty needle thing has caused him PTSD. So they set up the gas bottles but the guy suddenly claims it's untested and he could end up still alive with life-changing injuries. Since it's a life-ending procedure, who cares?...but I digress. It goes all the way to the Supreme Court who say, "Meh...gas him."

Gone. Buh-bye.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/kenneth-smith ... =106669305

[Bandung_Dero]

Been thinking about that after hearing of this earlier in the week. Last week we had a close family relation, 54yo, have a stroke. He was transported to the Udon General Hospital but at 02:00, the following morning, the doctors handed him back to the family, severe brain damage, with an oxygen bottle saying he will pass within hours. He did at 10:00 at the family home in our village.

I thought then nitrogen would have been a better option when one considers our atmosphere is made up of 78% of it so should not be traumatic or smell - say like carbon monoxide or other gasses that deprives oxygen.

Probably a good way to top ones self if that way inclined!!!

Come on the "Hand Wringers/Social Engineers"

[AlexO]

Been thinking about that after hearing of this earlier in the week. Last week we had a close family relation, 54yo, have a stroke. He was transported to the Udon General Hospital but at 02:00, the following morning, the doctors handed him back to the family, severe brain damage, with an oxygen bottle saying he will pass within hours. He did at 10:00 at the family home in our village.

I thought then nitrogen would have been a better option when one considers our atmosphere is made up of 78% of it so should not be traumatic or smell - say like carbon monoxide or other gasses that deprives oxygen.

Probably a good way to top ones self if that way inclined!!!

Come on the "Hand Wringers/Social Engineers"

Not sure if killing someone by Hypoxia is an acceptable way of legally killing someone humanely. It's basically the same as drowning or suffocating someone. Not against the death penalty for certain crimes but for a relatively advanced society it seems to be a prolonged method of judicial killing. Hanging via trap doors is virtually 100% effective and certainly a quicker way of ending an evil person's life or even a dose of the chemical's vets use to end your domestic pets life would seem to be more acceptable.

[jackspratt]

Come on the "Hand Wringers/Social Engineers"

Good lord, Dero - time to drag yourself into the 21st century.

I think "social justice warriors" is the more contemporary pejorative.

[Khun Paul]

With the world on a roller coaster of death and destruction, going back to the tried and tested way of a firing squad seems the best and quickest way of ending someones life.
Using modern systems by a mechanical method of pre-arranged rifles not am human in sight, electronically set up. NO need for ultra expensive equipment, most nations already have the means just need the electronics . .
No delays, no mistakes and a guaranteed swift death of the perpetrator

[glalt]

So this guy gets the death sentence for murder. When it's time for his lethal injection, they can't find a vein, so it's postponed. Guy decides that death by nitrogen is OK as the nasty needle thing has caused him PTSD. So they set up the gas bottles but the guy suddenly claims it's untested and he could end up still alive with life-changing injuries. Since it's a life-ending procedure, who cares?...but I digress. It goes all the way to the Supreme Court who say, "Meh...gas him."

Gone. Buh-bye.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/kenneth-smith ... =106669305

Bring back the rope. Hanging has no failures and is quick and cheap. Regardless of the way they execute a murderer, it is OK and actually preferable if there is pain created.. They usually caused pain and often torture when murdering their victims.

[David Chop]

it is OK and actually preferable if there is pain created

No, it's not OK. You may prefer it and it might tickle your fee-fees, but it's expressly forbidden by black letter law. See: 8th Amendment, US Constitution. Inflicting pain is definitely *not* OK.

[jackspratt]

Bring back the rope. Hanging has no failures ........

But the justice system certainly does.

What's a bit of pain before death for a wrongly convicted person, after all.

[tamada]

Bring back the rope. Hanging has no failures ........

But the justice system certainly does.

What's a bit of pain before death for a wrongly convicted person, after all.

Meh... Collateral damage.

Next?

[Bandung_Dero]

Not sure if killing someone by Hypoxia is an acceptable way of legally killing someone humanely. It's basically the same as drowning or suffocating someone.

Don't know for sure but I'm thinking the subject would be anesthetized before the event (like any general surgery) then the gas is administered. Have no idea why the guy was shacking for 4 minutes during the procedure, as reported by witnesses, but the doctors reported all was within expectations??

[tamada]

Been thinking about that after hearing of this earlier in the week. Last week we had a close family relation, 54yo, have a stroke. He was transported to the Udon General Hospital but at 02:00, the following morning, the doctors handed him back to the family, severe brain damage, with an oxygen bottle saying he will pass within hours. He did at 10:00 at the family home in our village.

I thought then nitrogen would have been a better option when one considers our atmosphere is made up of 78% of it so should not be traumatic or smell - say like carbon monoxide or other gasses that deprives oxygen.

Probably a good way to top ones self if that way inclined!!!

Come on the "Hand Wringers/Social Engineers"

Not sure if killing someone by Hypoxia is an acceptable way of legally killing someone humanely. It's basically the same as drowning or suffocating someone. Not against the death penalty for certain crimes but for a relatively advanced society it seems to be a prolonged method of judicial killing. Hanging via trap doors is virtually 100% effective and certainly a quicker way of ending an evil person's life or even a dose of the chemical's vets use to end your domestic pets life would seem to be more acceptable.

The reason for not giving the guy in the OP the needle was they couldn't find a vein. Maybe they didn't try hard enough as you don't hear much about folks in hospital having too torrid a time getting a drip, infusion or a transfusion because of this vein problem to the point they give up. Try another trainee nurse maybe?

Anyhow, regarding the inhumanity of nitrogen hypoxia. Hypoxia is what can happen when a passenger aircraft loses cabin pressure at altitude, no? The investigation into the Malaysian airliner that disappeared suggested that's what the Captain (or someone) did so the passengers would have become slowly incapacitated, fallen asleep before they 'peacefully' died. Maybe they also "shook violently for 22 minutes" as well? Maybe that's what the body does when it's unconscious already?

I agree the snapped neck of a properly conducted hanging is probably less traumatic unless the viewers and witnesses consider the shaking of the legs and feet being indicative of a slow death as is being suggested above.

How about the compressed air bolt that they use in animal slaughterhouses? Bam!!! You're dead. Minimal flailing (maybe).

[AlexO]

The reason for not giving the guy in the OP the needle was they couldn't find a vein. Maybe they didn't try hard enough as you don't hear much about folks in hospital having too torrid a time getting a drip, infusion or a transfusion because of this vein problem to the point they give up. Try another trainee nurse maybe?

Anyhow, regarding the inhumanity of nitrogen hypoxia. Hypoxia is what can happen when a passenger aircraft loses cabin pressure at altitude, no? The investigation into the Malaysian airliner that disappeared suggested that's what the Captain (or someone) did so the passengers would have become slowly incapacitated, fallen asleep before they 'peacefully' died. Maybe they also "shook violently for 22 minutes" as well? Maybe that's what the body does when it's unconscious already?

I agree the snapped neck of a properly conducted hanging is probably less traumatic unless the viewers and witnesses consider the shaking of the legs and feet being indicative of a slow death as is being suggested above.

How about the compressed air bolt that they use in animal slaughterhouses? Bam!!! You're dead. Minimal flailing (maybe).

Tam
The Malaysian airline was a theoretical investigation as no one has a clue to what happened.
Better example is the golfer Payne Stewart and his passengers who were actually seen to be unconscious by a checking fighter jet.
Yes if you have a limited oxygen supply and you 'gradually use it up' by breathing you could/will become unaware and slip into a coma like state and eventual death, Hypoxemia.
But to just suddenly cut off the supply as in the case of drowning or suffocation or the USA's latest form of execution you will certainly struggle for breath until you become comatose. How long that takes is going to be different with each individual.
Just for info the air bolts in are actually stun guns designed to knock the animal unconscious to allow the heart to keep beating to allow the humane bleed out of the animal which then dies from blood/oxygen loss. Thats why the Muslin and Jewish methods of just cutting an animals throat is frowned upon in most Western Countries

[Whistler]

Killing people legally is still killing people, I find the concept barbaric.

For some to suggest it should be a painful process is simply awful. Over thousands of years, countless 'Legal' killings have tortured many to death, in the process many thousands have been wrongfully executed.

Glalt, what do you think about stoning to death, boiling in oil, or being nailed to a cross? All legitimate ways in their day to kill people? Not that long ago people in the USA were burnt alive, is that the way a civilised society conducts themselves?

The scum of the earth deserve to be locked up and made to work hard for their miserable life, that is the best way to deal with them.

[tamada]

Tam
The Malaysian airline was a theoretical investigation as no one has a clue to what happened.
Better example is the golfer Payne Stewart and his passengers who were actually seen to be unconscious by a checking fighter jet.
Yes if you have a limited oxygen supply and you 'gradually use it up' by breathing you could/will become unaware and slip into a coma like state and eventual death, Hypoxemia.
But to just suddenly cut off the supply as in the case of drowning or suffocation or the USA's latest form of execution you will certainly struggle for breath until you become comatose. How long that takes is going to be different with each individual.
Just for info the air bolts in are actually stun guns designed to knock the animal unconscious to allow the heart to keep beating to allow the humane bleed out of the animal which then dies from blood/oxygen loss. Thats why the Muslin and Jewish methods of just cutting an animals throat is frowned upon in most Western Countries

That's why I said the investigation "suggested" that's what may have happened on the Malaysian plane. I didn't state that's what categorically happened. Right now, the official line is 'nobody knows' (but the Malaysians probably do).

Similarly, neither you nor I know precisely how this execution method is actually carried out. Most accounts do suggest that it's a sudden, 100% nitrogen gas flow, which would be akin to suffocating or drowning. That method flies in the face of the airliner/airplane scenario that suggests that following a slow, steady reduction of the ~20% of oxygen needed, the ultimate passing is Payne-less. (sorry)

Anyway, Joe Biden's not at all happy about it, so maybe this ignominious world first may also be the civilised world's last.

Good read here without the histrionics. It notes that veterinarians "have generally stopped using nitrogen to euthanize animals, who showed severe signs of distress."

Something else I was unaware of was that, "medical ethics rules prohibit doctors and other health care professionals from assisting in an execution. So the injections are usually administered by inexperienced prison workers, ..." Explains the four-hour botch trying to find a vein for this guy's original, aborted appointment with a lethal injection. It also prevents the administration of the obviously needed tranquillizer that's needed before ANY prison date with death.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/25/heal ... poxia.html

[Khun Paul]

No matter how you look at it, a death sentence may or not bARBaric. However the idea of putting someone to death is not just aboput exacting revenge for what they have done but also a strong indication to everyone else, that that act thje offendeer carried out COULD esult in your own death.
A paonful execution normally seen in public is a strong deterrent. THESE DAys these executions ae carried out privately with only certasion people allowed to watch.
Bring back the public watching and more will be deterred`,good spectator numbers could be a money making opportunity .
Joking aside part of thje p;roblem is the weak and liberalisation of sentencing , compared to death or deportatiopn used long ago , THAt worked well, but has long term problems look at America .

[AlexO]

Killing people legally is still killing people, I find the concept barbaric.

For some to suggest it should be a painful process is simply awful. Over thousands of years, countless 'Legal' killings have tortured many to death, in the process many thousands have been wrongfully executed.

Glalt, what do you think about stoning to death, boiling in oil, or being nailed to a cross? All legitimate ways in their day to kill people? Not that long ago people in the USA were burnt alive, is that the way a civilised society conducts themselves?

The scum of the earth deserve to be locked up and made to work hard for their miserable life, that is the best way to deal with them.

Sorry Whistler cannot agree 100% with your stance.
I do not condone judicial executions for every offence that previously resulted in the death penalty. Certain offences (premeditated murder, terrorist offences which result in the deaths of innocents, child murder etc.) do deserve the ultimate sentence in my opinion.
In the UK these people are sent to the general population prison systems, given 3 meals a day, are paid for any work they do which enables them to buy small goodies to make life more pleasant. Also In cell TV, games areas, free medical and dental care available far quicker than most people outside prison can expect. So really apart from loss of liberty they have quite a good lifestyle.
I have to say that the American system (as I understand and would welcome comment from our USA cousins on this) sentence people to death but they can languish in Death Row for up to 20 years, in solitary confinement cells 23 hours a day while the appeal system is gone through in its multiple phases. I find this quite cruel and inhumane, but they still are fed and have medical services available. Don't know where you get "many thousands have been wrongfully executed" but while a few have probably been wrongly executed in recent years, most judicial systems and the range of human rights (which many murderers have denied their victims) are designed to prevent. The fact that all this is funded by the tax payers.
I find it quite ironic that we seriously think that we should treat those who had no compulsion in taking human life (sometimes in the most horrific way) treat these scum as humans and not just end their time on this planet, humanely of course.

[AlexO]

Good read here without the histrionics. It notes that veterinarians "have generally stopped using nitrogen to euthanize animals, who showed severe signs of distress."

Tam,
From my Scuba Diving days, there is a potentially fatal symptom called Nitrogen Narcosis. This is caused by the bloodstream absorbing more nitrogen than oxygen. This results in a feeling of breathlessness and normally causes the diver to start to hyperventilate because you feel as if you are drowning. This causes a further increase in the nitrogen content in the blood to increase resulting in panic and hallucinations and if you don't recognise what is happening often is the cause of many of the diving fatalities suffered by recreational divers.
The trouble is that there is no exact science as to when and at what depths this can happen at. I was once at 50m and thought I should take out my regulator and sing to the fishes' other times I have been narc'ed at depths of 35 and 40m. A lot depends on factors such as how much booze the night before, amount of sleep and actual physical condition. Obviously, I recognised the symptoms and managed to control breathing rates and rise to depths where the nitrogen load dissipates in the bloodstream.
Point I am trying to make is that you are conscious for a while and you do feel that you are drowning/suffocating.
Cannot confirm at what point you become unaware and unconscious as those that do, inevitably cannot answer questions later on. But I would bet that it is not an instantaneous death, and there will be a period when the felon will be in a panicked state hence the reported struggles as they fight for air prior to becoming unconscious..

[AlexO]

Good read here without the histrionics. It notes that veterinarians "have generally stopped using nitrogen to euthanize animals, who showed severe signs of distress."

Tam,
From my Scuba Diving days, there is a potentially fatal symptom called Nitrogen Narcosis. This is caused by the bloodstream absorbing more nitrogen than oxygen. This results in a feeling of breathlessness and normally causes the diver to start to hyperventilate because you feel as if you are drowning. This causes a further increase in the nitrogen content in the blood resulting in panic and hallucinations and if you don't recognise what is happening often is the cause of many of the diving fatalities suffered by recreational divers.
The trouble is that there is no exact science as to when and at what depths this can happen at. I was once at 50m and thought I should take out my regulator and sing to the fishes' other times I have been narc'ed at depths of 35 and 40m. A lot depends on factors such as how much booze the night before, amount of sleep and actual physical condition. Obviously, I recognised the symptoms and managed to control breathing rates and rise to depths where the nitrogen load dissipates in the bloodstream.
Point I am trying to make is that you are conscious for a while and you do feel that you are drowning/suffocating.
Cannot confirm at what point you become unaware and unconscious as those that do, inevitably cannot answer questions later on. But I would bet that it is not an instantaneous death, and there will be a period when the felon will be in a panicked state hence the reported struggles as they fight for air prior to becoming unconscious..

[Whistler]

Diving problems with nitrogen are one thing, dying from Oxygen asphyxiation is totally different. In my mid teens for summer holidays I dove for abalone as a mate had a license, I saw a bit of nitrogen narcosis (milder than you maybe had a greater depths) even at prolonged dives in only of 20 metres. Suffocation is a different issue.

I share the fantasy of going out at the end of a muzzle from a jealous husband, quick, painless and I go with a smile on my dial.